Shocking Experience Cuting Cable With Grinder! UK

[stevieb]

Hi, Went through my first electricity cable today!. Doing a line of conifers on the front of a property. Line went straight from the pavement up to the side gate entrance. Perfect Line. Got to the last one next to the gate about 6 1/2" below, flash - bang :bang: Just hit the cable. Knocked the houses and the house next door electricity out. I only just touched it. They reset there circuit breakers and there power went back on. I had cable detected it and knew there was electricity near by. Had agreed with customer to only go about 6" to be safe. He was happy with that. I asked the guy where his electricity and gas meters were and they were in the center of the house. He could not understand why I had found electric where I did. I think he thought I was pulling a fast one. He dose not now! Anyhow my question is I cant find out where I stand on the legal side of it. The electricity board say they are going to bill me. But at 7" its cant be right. Either way there is no way I'm going to pay anything. In fact I may invoice them for a loss of a days work.

 

[nytreeman]

Here in upstate New York I always call the power company to come out and mark where the lines are if theres any question they might get hit grinding a stump they do it for free you just have to get ahold of them in advance.Better than hitting a live cable and costing you $$$ or worse starting a fire or frying your machine or yourself
I would think that in the UK they would do the same??

 

[Frank Boyer]

Hi, Went through my first electricity cable today!. Doing a line of conifers on the front of a property. Line went straight from the pavement up to the side gate entrance. Perfect Line. Got to the last one next to the gate about 6 1/2" below, flash - bang :bang: Just hit the cable. Knocked the houses and the house next door electricity out. I only just touched it. They reset there circuit breakers and there power went back on. I had cable detected it and knew there was electricity near by. Had agreed with customer to only go about 6" to be safe. He was happy with that. I asked the guy where his electricity and gas meters were and they were in the center of the house. He could not understand why I had found electric where I did. I think he thought I was pulling a fast one. He dose not now! Anyhow my question is I cant find out where I stand on the legal side of it. The electricity board say they are going to bill me. But at 7" its cant be right. Either way there is no way I'm going to pay anything. In fact I may invoice them for a loss of a days work.

In CA you must get a locate or face a $50K fine and costs/damages if you don't. If you get the locate and still hit something that was marked, you are still responsible for all costs. If you get a locate and hit something that wasn't marked you may not be liable for the costs. Utilities should be deeper than 18", but with remodels and finish grading being done after the utilities are installed 6" deep electrical is scary, but not unheard of. Good Luck on billing them for your expenses and a full day's lost time.

 

[stevieb]

Well here in the UK as far as I am aware some one correct me if they can. The utilities arnt bothered to help contractors and you have to have the surveys done and paid for your self. No one is going to pay for a survey for a stump. If I was at 14" id say well there was always a chance. 6 1/2" 12" from the main house so the ground has not been re-graded I did not stand a chance. 3/4 spade depth. I have spoken to a few people and they reckon there is no standard on the depth. I just cant believe that. We are so health and safety crazy in the country. You cant even smoke a fag in your van from 1st July or get prosecuted but its not problem just to through a live cable just under the surface. It all :censored: up!

 

[Oly's Stump]

I have hit about 6 live electric lines the past 20 years. All of them were private electric lines between the house and garage which was installed by the home owner and are not marked by Diggers Hotline. In most cases the home owner recently purchased the home and had no idea where the lines were. In most cases the tree grew right around the electric line. You see the arc while your cutting then of course its too late. The home owner was responsible for repairing the line. I never received a shock nor did it cause any damage to my equipment. I have never yet hit the power company electric or gas lines. I have hit many cable lines. In my area the cable lines are only a inch or two under ground and they are not marked by Diggers Hotline. If you hit a cable line the cable company repairs it for the home owner at no cost. The telephone lines in my area are sometimes only a inch or two under ground also. I have hit about five phone lines so far and the phone company comes out and repaired it at no cost to me or the home owner. The phone lines are marked by Diggers Hotline but in those five cases I never had them marked. Once the phone company came out and saw that the line was only an inch under ground, they made no beef about cutting the line.

 

[stevieb]

I have yet to find on the internet any standard depth's for untilities on private land. The electruc Company are going to bill me thats a fact. When the guys turned up to sort it out they had a laptop which in seconds told them exactly where all the underground cables were. It was asked how to get access to the information and was told its a private network. What a load of bull! the whole thing just stinks!

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

If I detect cables I only go a few inches below,I refuse to go further.

What a lot of people don't understand is ,tree roots can and will bring up cables whilst growing.

insurance not paying up then?

 

[stevieb]

Rolla, I cant for the life of me understand how the stump can drag the roots up. I'm not in a position to argue a good argument on it but you would of thought they would either just engulf them or push them down. I use cable avoidence tools cat and jenny. But when I detect a cable I have always assumed at least 6" was ok. Obviously things are going to change now. Discalimers and putting in small trenches to the depth I'm going to. All paid for by the customer of course.

 

[Oly's Stump]

Tree roots heave sidewalks, driveways, foundations and I have seen them heave phone lines above grade.

 

[stevieb]

The one I hit Oly was going through the heart of the stump.

 

[Oly's Stump]

Been there and done that. Today I hit a sump pump line. I forgot to mention them. I hit one of them at least once a month. If I suspect a line near the stump, I always ask the home owner. Usually they say no lines or they don't know. Go figure!

 

[stevieb]

Been there and done that. Today I hit a sump pump line. I forgot to mention them. I hit one of them at least once a month. If I suspect a line near the stump, I always ask the home owner. Usually they say no lines or they don't know. Go figure!

Im already addressing the situation of I don't know guv! I have now got disclaimers drawn up. As far as I'm concerned it's there property they should know the layout or take it upon themselfs to find out. Taking into account I go to the depth that they ask me to so why should I pay? As I said in a previous post I use Cable Avoidence Tools but that is for my benefit and not a gaurantee to the customer. They sign the disclaimer or I move on. It may hurt sometimes but at least I'v covered my backside.

 

[03treegrunt11]

Here in Pennsylvania you are required to make a PA-One call.....they do mark-outs for all the under-ground utilities.

 

[stevieb]

It seems in the US your utilitiy companies are very helpful. Here I cant even get a straight answer on the legal depth or find it on the internet.

 

[sdt7618]

deeper and deeper.

SteveB,

Having worked in construction management for a good number of years, I would say there is no legal depth for cables, but anything above 450mm deep is pretty shallow. cable should also have had a marker tape above it if it was a recent one, circe last ten years or so.

I would ask who put the cable in? and why so shallow. But i don't know of any legal standing about depths, but you might want to speak to the local planning and building control office. they would give a better idea for your area.

hope this helps


steven

 

[a_lopa]

I have a guy locate lines if im not 100%

 

[stevieb]

I have been told that on private property there is no offical depth. But there must be a health and safety issue at least. The one thing that really annoys me is there is no help to stop this happening again. Apart from use of Cat and manual excevation. I know the utilities use software with underground mapping. With the data protection act etc... I would of thought the home owner would have access to all of these records, but it seems to be a grey area.

 

[sdt7618]

they might map!!

Utilities might have maps of services but they are only as good as the info put into them. until recently these were marked on drawings with hugh scales. So the info that has been passed onto their computer software is sometimes so far out it isn't worth trusting. I would recommend a cat survey and trial digs anyday over utility info. Just m opinion but have seen the info being wrong so many times and cables or drains being bust because people don't do there own reseach. Trust me , use the CAT and if you get a reading, do some spade work. it's your neck on the line.

From Personal experiance, I have see the result of a cable strike. A guy on a site drove a steel pin into the ground and the 11K Volt cable as well, he won't be playing golf again. the guy who was with him and about 4 metres away had burns to, and he was't even touching the cable just the flash burnt him..


trust me when I say check and check again. if in doubt don't risk your health.

Steven

 

[IndyIan]

I bet if you call up your local building official and say you are putting in an underground cable there will suddenly be a regulation!
Here for 220V needs to be 1 metre

 

[BeachTrucking]

Here in NJ your not required to call for a markout unless you dig or grind deeper than 6". They made it 6" so that farmers don't have to call in for plowing their fields. :monkey: