Simple question - chainsaw bar grease gun

[tdi-rick]

Stihl had grease holes in their bars in the 1980s or so, and decided that they were a waste of time and energy.

Or we could be really cynical and say one less manufacturing operation saves a few cents/bar, saves a lot of wear and tear on the machinery to produce it and the engineer responsible gets a pat on the head for saving the company a lot of money while they continue to wholesale the bar at the old price.

Just saying.

 

[Fish]

True, but their bar chain history would have manifested itself if they were wrong? They "gave up" on the "grease hole" idea back in the 70s-80s, have they in any way been
proved at that being a bad decision at all?

They change their drive links constantly for lube reasons, why would they not revisit the "greasehole" option??????

Not trying to defend anything, but just keep things "real".....

 

[tdi-rick]

At the end of the day I really wonder how many bars that actually have grease holes are ever greased anyway ?

As Matt said, cutting firewood here you can kill a nose sprocket in no time flat but our timber isn't what the majority of the world cuts.

Everyone bar Stihl continues to drill a greasing hole in their nose sprockets.
Whether it's because customers expect it, regardless of necessity or their engineers deem it necessary, who knows ?

All my bars have holes, so I carry a paper clip and clean them out and give them a squirt or four of the Ampol NLGI #2 Li complex grease I scored for nix.
I need to use it up somewhere, I use CAT grease for chassis lubing andI have about ten tubes of the old Ampol stuff to get rid of......

Shame Oregon Engineer doesn't seem to post anymore, this would've been a good one for him.

 

[Philbert]

Or we could be really cynical and say one less manufacturing operation saves a few cents/bar, . . .

STIHL actually adds a few parts - the shims I mentioned above. I assume that these help reduce friction. They also block supplemental lube holes that people might try to drill.

At the end of the day I really wonder how many bars that actually have grease holes are ever greased anyway ?

+1

The stories you guys post about your trees down there are pretty incredible. Sounds like quite a challenge.

Shame Oregon Engineer doesn't seem to post anymore, this would've been a good one for him.

+2!

Philbert

 

[LegDeLimber]

I notice a lack of any mention of purging the old grease
when pumping in the new stuff.
If you're concerned with driving dirt into the bearings,
then purge till Ya see clean lube.
If need be, any heavy equipment (skidder) operator
can probably teach you how.

Just might need to turn the sprocket in both directions while lubing
since the holes are usually at diametrically opposed locations.

personally I wish the oil and grease was as easy to get in the nose
as the damn tooth pick sized splinters that manage to get stuck in there.
loads of fun trying to turn the nose sprocket and dig 'em out
after pulling off the chain for it,
then gotta clean up all the bar mount areas and reassemble..

Why I want a set of hardnose bars for the pull-ons and husky
never have to fool with that mess on the old hard tipped echo.

And for some reason I don't seem to sling a chain near as much
when limbing with a hard nose.
wonder if it's related to not having the chain already riding
off the bar around the curve?
any ideas?

 

[Philbert]

And for some reason I don't seem to sling a chain near as much when limbing with a hard nose. wonder if it's related to not having the chain already riding off the bar around the curve? any ideas?

Interesting idea. A technical representative told me that when your chain loop is spinning around your bar at 60 MPH centrifugal force tends to pull the drive links out of the bar groove a bit - he told me that that is why guide bars are curved/arc'ed rather than flat. I always assumed that this was the space (top or bottom of bar) where small twigs got in and derailed the chain. The space at the sprocket nose is an interesting thought.

The worst sprocket jamming problem I had was a piece of string that got jammed in there. Had to drive out the rivets and (carefully) remove and reinstall the whole thing just to find it. Easy to drop/lose those little bearings!

Philbert

 

[LegDeLimber]

I used to grab a sheet of plastic like those in the old floppy disc packages
or some of that plastic that everything is packed in now days.

A flat section is handy for laying up the hub and rollers in the sprocket center, Sort of like that display model Except withe plastic on the bottom.
then with bar on it's side
(clamped to table to prevent sliding around while you work things in )
slide the whole shebang into the nose slot
and try to find where the rivets rolled off to
while you were being "entertained" with the sprocket.

They're probably off having a secret meeting with a couple of
those ballisticaly stored, missing "E" clips!

 

[tdi-rick]

I notice a lack of any mention of purging the old grease
when pumping in the new stuff.

Good point and something I tend to forget to mention as it's standard procedure when greasing something but I keep forgetting that not everyone is taught how to grease/service equipment these days !

Not everyone is at the same place in terms of knowledge and I keep forgetting that.

 

[splitpost]

Good point and something I tend to forget to mention as it's standard procedure when greasing something but I keep forgetting that not everyone is taught how to grease/service equipment these days !

Not everyone is at the same place in terms of knowledge and I keep forgetting that.

yep,but I worked with a fellow years ago and he considered a waste of grease/money,personally I prefer to purge,little wasted grease is cheaper than downtime and repairs in my book

 

[Fish]

Not everyone is at the same place in terms of knowledge and I keep forgetting that.

Didn't Adolf Hitler and Bobby Knight say this decades ago?????????????????



Naw, this cannot just fade away!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We need to move this phrase to the top!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MCW]

Here's a thought.

Maybe Stihl thought that their average user was too stupid to grease a bar nose?
I mean they invented flippy caps because Stihl saw users were too stupid to master a screw cap

I'll run off and hide now. My job here is done...

 

[Philbert]

I used to grab a sheet of plastic like those in the old floppy disc packages or some of that plastic that everything is packed in now days. A flat section is handy for laying up the hub and rollers in the sprocket ...

Great idea - I used a 3X5 card, but I like the packaging plastic.

Philbert

 

[ramzilla]

Yeah, no problem with that. But sealed bearings imply that they are supplied with a lifetime of grease - these do get lubrication during use from the bar & chain oil, which I think is a source of some of the confusion with bar tip sprockets.

Philbert

Hence why I didn't say sealed bearing I just said sealed. I am pretty sure the word sealed does not imply filled with grease.
sealed
- definition
adjective American English pronunciation: sealed

closed with a lid, cover, etc. so that nothing can get in or out

 

[Philbert]

Man you are a word nit-picker aren't you. . .

Hence why I didn't say sealed bearing I just said sealed. I am pretty sure the word sealed does not imply filled with grease. sealed - definition adjective American English pronunciation: sealed closed with a lid, cover, etc. so that nothing can get in or out

Really?!

After calling me a 'nit-picker'? You are going all American Heritage on me?

Anyway, I still disagree with you. They are not 'sealed' according to your definition because bar oil still can, and does, get in.

Philbert

 

[ramzilla]

All American heritage? I guess I should take that as a compliment. So what would the proper term for the new bars with no grease holes be? I guess I should say sealed sided bars...

 

[Philbert]

So what would the proper term for the new bars with no grease holes be?

Maybe we need a poll?

'Non-greasable'?

'No maintenance'?

'Un-holey'?

'STHIL'?

Philbert

 

[ramzilla]

Maybe we need a poll?

'Non-greasable'?

'No maintenance'?

'Un-holey'?

'STHIL'?

Philbert

Un-holey it shall be. Argument settled.
I worked for a Ford dealer for years and when they went to sealed or un-holey bearings they became an item that had to be replaced very often as opposed to just greasing and tightening the serviceable tapered bearings that very rarely needed replacing when maintained. Same for the un-holey sealed ball joints. I now work on road tractors for Caterpillar and see trucks with over a million miles that haven't had to replace bearings ever because they ride in oil or grease. That being said my theory on why Stihl did away with the serviceable bars was to save on manufacturing costs and raise future bar sales but nobody really can say other than the Stihl designer who did it.

 

[bucknfeller]

Un-holey it shall be. Argument settled.
I worked for a Ford dealer for years and when they went to sealed or un-holey bearings they became an item that had to be replaced very often as opposed to just greasing and tightening the serviceable tapered bearings that very rarely needed replacing when maintained. Same for the un-holey sealed ball joints. I now work on road tractors for Caterpillar and see trucks with over a million miles that haven't had to replace bearings ever because they ride in oil or grease. That being said my theory on why Stihl did away with the serviceable bars was to save on manufacturing costs and raise future bar sales but nobody really can say other than the Stihl designer who did it.

It all depends on the application, Case Combines started using a lot of sealed bearings about 12 years ago or so. They hold up better than the ones they replaced because they run in filthy dusty dirty conditions. On top of that, farmers would not wipe off the fittings before they greased up, so they pumped a little bit of grit in the bearing every time. Could be the same idea when it comes to "un-holy" bars...

 

[ramzilla]

Oh I agree with you but do you think the sealed bearings were better or the greased ones failed because they were not greased as intended(i.e. not wiping off the fittings first or greasing often enough)?

 

[tdi-rick]

(i.e. not wiping off the fittings first or greasing often enough)?

That's the single biggest issue with any serviceable item.

It just seems you can't teach 'clean' to some people, they have no concept of what it is and how almost microscopic grit destroys something that moves/rotates, let alone the stuff you can easily see.

(and I'm the messiest, most disorganised bastard on earth, but that's different )