Skidder rebuild, { warning graphic pictures}

[stihl 440]

Orginally I thought about using a Dutz but everyone I talked to seemed tell me it was cheaper to buy a skidder with a Dutz already in it than change over to one because of how the pump was set up and all the other stuff that would need to be changed.
I used the Detroit just because I had it; not my first choice ever, lots of noise and not much power. In my dream world I would sell my Clark 664 skidder and trade it for a Cat 518 or 525 cable machine and make the 240 my spare machine and the one I use to pull trucks in and out with. I want a machine with a dealer that stocks parts and does not have 10 different models they stock parts for and none of them mine. When it come to ordering parts. The Timberjack no longer has a dealer ship the Clark dealership is gone and I can order parts for either machine over the phone and pay for overnight shipping to get the wrong part almost 50 percent of the time. I am willing to pay more for a part and walk in and get it than wait couple of days for a part. by the time you spring for the overnight shipping and now figure for lost time; it makes the off brand parts just has expensive as Cats parts now.. Like I said in my dream world

Cats are a pretty good machine...my buddy had a 518 cable and it was down atleast once a week with air line issues and hydraulic pump problems....that and he was burning 50 gal of fuel a day and he was contract cutting...so he was making no money....and he was fed up with the machine...so he found a 1996 franklin 170 cable with a 12 valve 6cyl cummins....he is now pulling 2 more trees and only burning 20-25 gallon of fuel a day....and pulling farther than he was before. Needless to say he bought the franklin and didnt look back...oh and it hasnt been down yet. Franklins are one hell of a machine....almost cant beat them with a machine of the same size. They are a bear when it comes to pulling.....especially with a cummins. My current boss has a wide wheelbase timberjack 240 with a 453 detroit and a franklin 170 with a 453 detroit.....both have the same motor and the frankiln will outpull the timberjack by far....and IMO is twice the machine of the TJ. Even though i hate detroits all together....the franklin is no slouch with it surprisingly. I know 170's with a cummins are absolute horse when winching and pulling. Id say ditch the detroit and get a 4BT turbo cummins or a 6cyl cummins 12 valve turbo and put in it....might use a little more fuel but it will for sure pull more.

 

[plasticweld]

Cats are a pretty good machine...my buddy had a 518 cable and it was down atleast once a week with air line issues and hydraulic pump problems....that and he was burning 50 gal of fuel a day and he was contract cutting...so he was making no money....and he was fed up with the machine...so he found a 1996 franklin 170 cable with a 12 valve 6cyl cummins....he is now pulling 2 more trees and only burning 20-25 gallon of fuel a day....and pulling farther than he was before. Needless to say he bought the franklin and didnt look back...oh and it hasnt been down yet. Franklins are one hell of a machine....almost cant beat them with a machine of the same size. They are a bear when it comes to pulling.....especially with a cummins. My current boss has a wide wheelbase timberjack 240 with a 453 detroit and a franklin 170 with a 453 detroit.....both have the same motor and the frankiln will outpull the timberjack by far....and IMO is twice the machine of the TJ. Even though i hate detroits all together....the franklin is no slouch with it surprisingly. I know 170's with a cummins are absolute horse when winching and pulling. Id say ditch the detroit and get a 4BT turbo cummins or a 6cyl cummins 12 valve turbo and put in it....might use a little more fuel but it will for sure pull more.

Thanks for your imput about the Cat. They do burn a lot more fuel. I used one years ago on a long pull on steep ground and needed to add fuel at lunch to make it to the end of the day. This was 20 years ago and the machine was in good shape but I do remember that we just ran the machine and except for minor stuff never lost any time. It may be niave to think a machine 30 years old of any brand will work with out lots of maintanace. I have never run a Franklin, the TJ works well in this area because the ground is steep and for a old guy like me getting on and off all day long takes its toll. While I like the Clark and how it operates by the end of the week I am tired of climbing up and down I would at sometime like to replace the Clark just to have a larger machine. It has low hours a new motor and is nice and tight the only thing killing it is its size for what we use it for

 

[stihl 440]

Thanks for your imput about the Cat. They do burn a lot more fuel. I used one years ago on a long pull on steep ground and needed to add fuel at lunch to make it to the end of the day. This was 20 years ago and the machine was in good shape but I do remember that we just ran the machine and except for minor stuff never lost any time. It may be niave to think a machine 30 years old of any brand will work with out lots of maintanace. I have never run a Franklin, the TJ works well in this area because the ground is steep and for a old guy like me getting on and off all day long takes its toll. While I like the Clark and how it operates by the end of the week I am tired of climbing up and down I would at sometime like to replace the Clark just to have a larger machine. It has low hours a new motor and is nice and tight the only thing killing it is its size for what we use it for

If you run a good franklin 170 i bet you'll want one over a cat 518 or even a 525. The thing about franklins (170's) are they are so versitile....they are at home on a hill and on the level. They will hold to a hill and they will out pull most other machine brands on the level. That and their winch is surperior to most....not as fast as the cat's gear-omatic...but they have power at all times where if you are winching heavy with the cat it sometimes wont do it. Franklins will bust the cable before they stop....or bust the tree thats hanging you up. 42 tons of power all the time.....the newer (1990's +) machines are even stronger i believe. That and you can get in and out both sides of a franklin....where to the timberjack you cant. And franklin has the full cage so you dont get hit with brush like the timberjack.

 

[Oldtimer]

I bought big yeller in April, had a Tree Farmer C5D Duetz for 17 years before.

Let me tell you; The 648D is about 50x the skidder. And it fits through every trail I made with the twig farmer...steers about 60000% better.

I will never own another cable machine, ever. If it don't have a grapple on back, I don't want it.
Naturally, a winch on the grapple is a good idea. I will be adding one to this JD soon. But I have not needed a winch yet. And I have not dragged a cable since April.

 

[plasticweld]

Old Timer what kind of wood are you cutting? I know NH has some steep ground how do you handle spots were you can not back up to the trees. I run 150 feet of cable and in many cases that is not enough when it comes to be able to get the trees out. A bulldozer for building roads is the norm here, I also wonder with the width of the machine how it effects the job when you are doing a selective cut job. I have a good friend who picked up 3 648 grapple machines and told me he would sell me one of them for under $30,000 they have winches and seemed to be in fair shape but needing work. Being a old guy myself it would be great never to have to pull cable again but I don't see me being able to pull it off. I have never worked with a grapple machine so have no idea of what they can and can't do. If I had time this summer I would stop up and see you and check out how you run your operation maybe then I would have a better idea..Bob

 

[Oldtimer]

Old Timer what kind of wood are you cutting? I know NH has some steep ground how do you handle spots were you can not back up to the trees. I run 150 feet of cable and in many cases that is not enough when it comes to be able to get the trees out. A bulldozer for building roads is the norm here, I also wonder with the width of the machine how it effects the job when you are doing a selective cut job. I have a good friend who picked up 3 648 grapple machines and told me he would sell me one of them for under $30,000 they have winches and seemed to be in fair shape but needing work. Being a old guy myself it would be great never to have to pull cable again but I don't see me being able to pull it off. I have never worked with a grapple machine so have no idea of what they can and can't do. If I had time this summer I would stop up and see you and check out how you run your operation maybe then I would have a better idea..Bob

It's a matter of cutting some extra wood to allow access. It really isn't any different that how a wheeled fellerbuncher cuts whatever is in the way to get to the good wood.
We do have some steep ground, but I am not on steep stuff too much. As I said, I will have a winch soon, and that will allow for getting into the nooks and crannies.
For now, I just wouldn't cut the few that are in inaccessable spots.
As for mobility, it goes wherever the Tree Farmer (Small machine) went with ease. But I have the smaller tires too, 28L26.
The real bennies of the grapple is SPEED. All that time saved picking wood up and then dropping at the landing. I make 3 more hitches a day on found time.
Another bennie is the wood comes out 5' in the air...WAY less mud and dirt on the wood. Great for sawing up!
Then there's loading the dump truck with it by trigging the wood under the machine and backing the wood up over the truck where you just cut it off and let it fall in.
Then there's stumping made easy..
Then there's grabbing the brush and putting it into the mudhole when needed..
Then there's the EASE of placing bridges..
Then there's being able to deck wood out of the way when the landing is plugged..
I can go on..

 

[Cletuspsc]

Grapple machines are the cats meow when picking up small wood 12" or less. I run a 240A and it suits my needs "OK" but if the bank would allow it i would pick up a grapple in the 648 size range tomorrow. We cut a good mix of size and species around here, every thing from pine and hemlock pulp to big oak and maple. I cut with a buncher and buck up with a slasher package and my biggest issue is keeping the slasher fed and bringing all the junk from the slasher back into the woods. One thing i like about a cable is you can pull a bigger hitch of big wood with it. I was working with a friend who had a 648G and he was pulling 3 good sized oaks to my 5 just because his grapple could not hold onto more than that. But when smaller wood was the order of the day he would blow my doors off. The ability to just back up to a bunch and go and then drop it at the hedder and never stop to unhook is hard to beat.

 

[Oldtimer]

Grapple machines are the cats meow when picking up small wood 12" or less. I run a 240A and it suits my needs "OK" but if the bank would allow it i would pick up a grapple in the 648 size range tomorrow. We cut a good mix of size and species around here, every thing from pine and hemlock pulp to big oak and maple. I cut with a buncher and buck up with a slasher package and my biggest issue is keeping the slasher fed and bringing all the junk from the slasher back into the woods. One thing i like about a cable is you can pull a bigger hitch of big wood with it. I was working with a friend who had a 648G and he was pulling 3 good sized oaks to my 5 just because his grapple could not hold onto more than that. But when smaller wood was the order of the day he would blow my doors off. The ability to just back up to a bunch and go and then drop it at the hedder and never stop to unhook is hard to beat.

You are right about hauling more with a cable. But the time saved more than makes up for it.
I find that I can grab four 20" diameter oaks, but will lose one because the weight simply overwhelms the grapples holding power.

You need to fab a grapple for the blade, like the crazy canadians.
October 2005 - Logging and Sawmilling Journal - Spot Light

 

[Cletuspsc]

I dont think the little 240 would like that extra wight very much. . . . its a good idea though for the bigger contractors

 

[056kid]

You are right about hauling more with a cable. But the time saved more than makes up for it.
I find that I can grab four 20" diameter oaks, but will lose one because the weight simply overwhelms the grapples holding power.

You need to fab a grapple for the blade, like the crazy canadians.
October 2005 - Logging and Sawmilling Journal - Spot Light

Thats why you gotta periodically tighten your grapple as you are toting them down the way. As for cable machines, when you get in the mountains, skid roads so narrow that the tires hang off the the bank, windy shoves through tight draws on steep ground. That cable skidder will get you more wood and keep your ass from going on a ride down the mountain. I have seen guys flip big grapple skidders going aroind bends and hanging a drag or having a big log get the machine real unstable. There is a certain amount of lee way with the grapple as far as keeping the machine on at least 3 wheels, but it is nothing like hitting that lever right before things get nasty and cruise up the way, get a good plant, winch up, carry on your merry way. Also the cable will also save you when you get alittle over zealous with the off piste action haha. I wish I had some pictures of the unbelievable places I have seen my old boss man take his machines.

 

[Oldtimer]

Thats why you gotta periodically tighten your grapple as you are toting them down the way. As for cable machines, when you get in the mountains, skid roads so narrow that the tires hang off the the bank, windy shoves through tight draws on steep ground. That cable skidder will get you more wood and keep your ass from going on a ride down the mountain. I have seen guys flip big grapple skidders going aroind bends and hanging a drag or having a big log get the machine real unstable. There is a certain amount of lee way with the grapple as far as keeping the machine on at least 3 wheels, but it is nothing like hitting that lever right before things get nasty and cruise up the way, get a good plant, winch up, carry on your merry way. Also the cable will also save you when you get alittle over zealous with the off piste action haha. I wish I had some pictures of the unbelievable places I have seen my old boss man take his machines.

The JD has a detent that keeps constant hydraulic pressure on the grapple.
It's the weight of 4 real good sized Oaks (with tops most times) that will simply overwhelm the power of the grapple pistons. They are only so powerful, and the machine is an '88 after all.
As for steep ground, I'll just keep the grapple dragging on the ground as much as possible.
I had 17 straight years of cable logging before this grapple.
Never going back to cable only. Ever.
It's like going from a hand saw to a new Husqvarna 394 for chopping.

 

[redprospector]

I've never rebuilt anything as extensively as you are doing with your 240, but I can definately understand your reasoning.
I bought a new Terex PT-100G to eliminate some downtime. I've had the machine for 4 months and it's been in the shop for almost half that time. The mechanical breakdowns I can deal with, but the computer problems I really hate. A computer has no place on a piece of heavy equipment, especially if that equipment is used in the woods.
Two months ago I spent $5000 on hydraulic components for my little JD 440-B skidder. Money well spent, It's the perfect size skidder for what I'm doing, and I can't replace it for what It cost to keep it up.
I'm going next week to look at another machine to replace my new piece of crap Terex, and yes it is old enough it dosen't have a computer. I think my new purpose in life is to keep old iron going.

Andy

 

[Cletuspsc]

I. I think my new purpose in life is to keep old iron going.

Thats about how I feel these days but I secretly like spinning wrenches

 

[MountainCutter]

Restoring a 1969 TD20 Dresser Bull Dozer

There is a guy on youtube that has some cool videos of his logging dozer YouTube - ‪This Cat Is Nothing But Trouble‬‏ His youtube name is Wranglerstar and he is logging his land and documenting his off-grid homestead project on youtube. I found him through nutnfancy youtuber.

MC

 

[tramp bushler]

Hey you Guys

I've never rebuilt anything as extensively as you are doing with your 240, but I can definately understand your reasoning.
I bought a new Terex PT-100G to eliminate some downtime. I've had the machine for 4 months and it's been in the shop for almost half that time. The mechanical breakdowns I can deal with, but the computer problems I really hate. A computer has no place on a piece of heavy equipment, especially if that equipment is used in the woods.
Two months ago I spent $5000 on hydraulic components for my little JD 440-B skidder. Money well spent, It's the perfect size skidder for what I'm doing, and I can't replace it for what It cost to keep it up.
I'm going next week to look at another machine to replace my new piece of crap Terex, and yes it is old enough it dosen't have a computer. I think my new purpose in life is to keep old iron going.

Andy

HI Red , 56 , OT , and everyone else . . 2 weeks ago I got the bill of sale for my 330GP Timberjack line machine / cable skidder . It is not running at this point . has a 353 in it . I actually like Screamin Jimmies .. No glow plugs tho which puts emphisis on preheating the machine all winter . ... I have about a thousand questions about Timberjacks . ....Is yours a standard tranny or automatic ? mine is an automatic . but the shift lever and the fwd/rev lever are missing . . I think 2 of the tires on mine are farm tractor tires . I got the machine for 3,600$ and is isn't wore to a frazzle . the main shive " spool " has just slight line wear , like 1/8th" the band brake on the drum is close to 3/8ths " thick . . It is missing it's orig. hood I have hood parts from an old 404 TJ that I will cobble together a hood for this winter season . a friend has a running 353 he'll let me have for 1 k $ .. I have pretty flat ground here to log , and tho I'm a timber faller by preference and temperment . My plan /hope is to go fully Mech.within a few years ....

 

[Oldtimer]

I am no help with TJs. Good luck!

 

[tramp bushler]

More Questions .

Is there some book , or resource I can get about TimberJacks ???????? I ran a 230D in Maine when I was a teen and it got me hooked on TJs ..... My skidder is in Southeast Alaska . and I,ll have t get it mobed up here , so far the cheapest quote is 3,500$ paying as I go is less stressful than banks . . I was working with a guy who had a Mountain Logger ML 200 down in Haines . I was blown away with how little he got accomplished with it . It had a 6v53 in it and was imo a good skidder but was not used correctly or very energetically . . Which leads me to a ? HOW MANY CORD ,/ THOUSAND BOARD FEET DO YOU GUYS LOG /STUMP TO THE LANDING WITH YOUR SKIDDERS ... guess I need to shut off the caps lock . . Not a competitive ? but that guy didn,t get out more than 5 cord a day . I can do that with my Duce an half ... I have almost exclusivly white spruce here . I have been thinking around 4 cord per hour or better with the TJ . .. Any advice [constructive] will be very much appreciated . ... Skidders arn,t very common in Alaska . so a guy kindo gets what he can and makes it work . .. My target for the winter is around 680 cord fell and logged , working alone ..I also do most of my own hauling . Plastic wedge . my hats off to you for doing such a major rebuild .. Looks great . I can read replies at night on my cell phone but replying is a daunting challenge .... post more pics if you can . I can't view them on my phone but can on this puter ...

 

[tramp bushler]

Thanks OT . You have a great looking skidder there ... . With falling by hand in a selective cut I couldn,t utilize a grapple skidder very well . At least not to its potential . a line skidder with 4-6 snared in sliders should be pretty productive for me . I keep my stumps real low ..

 

[Oldtimer]

How much in a twitch depends mostly on the size and length of the wood.

My old C5D Twigfarmer used to pull a full cord of hardwood with 5 chokers if the wood was fat and tall. And I mean a cut / split / stacked cord, not a cord by the weight.

If you have any steep ground (It's Alaska, you must have some!) and any wet ground (Again, Alaska!) I wouldn't count on much more than a cord per twitch. Again, basing this on what I do in NH.
I know putting 4 cord an hour on the landing here with a cable machine is possible only if you are cutting BIG wood (NH wood) right outside the landing- and you better have a 640+ sized skidder.

As I remember, Spruce has limbs like a dog has hair. I can't see moving 4 cord an hour just because of the limbing involved.

 

[tramp bushler]

Where I am , the Copper Basin most of the ground is pretty good . . We pretty much only log in the winter here . Where as in S.E. Ak. it is all summer / spring summer/fall logging . too much snow in winter . Southeast is mostly Tower ground . also helicopters and what we call Shovel logging . logging with a 200 plus size hyd log loader . .southeast was mostly clear cut method . the helo's do selective loggin . .. I can pretty easily fall 7 cord per hr avg . here and was loggin 2-3 cord per hour with the D3 I rented last winter . . swamping the trees out / limbind the bole of the tree up to 6 ft is the worst of the limbing .