Small diameter tree - no obvious lean?

[Billy_Bob]

I'm reading a book and the author mentions this happening to himself every now and then...

What do you do if you have a small diameter tree (say around 10 inches) and it has no lean any particular direction that you can see?

You cut the face cut, then start cutting the back cut and the tree sits back on your saw! (Actually tree was leaning back toward back cut, but this was not obvious.)

Again this is a situation where you can't stick a wedge in the back cut because there is not enough room for the saw and a wedge....

Now if you did the opposite, cut back cut first, stick in wedge, then face cut, then I suppose the tree could bind your saw while cutting the face cut???

So what to do in this situation to keep your saw from getting stuck?

 

[ropensaddle]

I'm reading a book and the author mentions this happening to himself every now and then...

What do you do if you have a small diameter tree (say around 10 inches) and it has no lean any particular direction that you can see?

You cut the face cut, then start cutting the back cut and the tree sits back on your saw! (Actually tree was leaning back toward back cut, but this was not obvious.)

Again this is a situation where you can't stick a wedge in the back cut because there is not enough room for the saw and a wedge....

Now if you did the opposite, cut back cut first, stick in wedge, then face cut, then I suppose the tree could bind your saw while cutting the face cut???

So what to do in this situation to keep your saw from getting stuck?

Take two large wooden pruner poles and snap them together and then
encapsulate them with pvc pipe to stiffen them up, now make a poker
end to fit on the head pole and make it sturdy. Then you can stick the
sharpened poker into the tree at ten foot up and push that puppy over!

 

[tree_beard]

if youre a rope and throwline kinda guy, now would be a good time to use em...


if not its a hike back to the truck to get the second saw, and re-cut the tree a foot or so higher than your original cuts, taking into account the lean this time...

 

[Bushler]

Use a plumb bob.

 

[Zackman1801]

do what ropensaddle said but easier. take your axe find a small diameter tree with a fork in it, chop it down cut to desired length, use the fork to stick under a branch or just wedge it against the tree and push, if the tree dosent fall over you might be able to kick your saw gentely out of the tree. if that fails, walk back to the truck and get the other saw.....or else just knock it over with your skidder......thats probably the quickest option.

 

[Humptulips]

There isn't always a piece of equipment around to bail you out and I can't really see pushing over by hand that large of a tree so make sure you know the lean. If it truly has no lean (a rarity) it shouldn't set back on you unless you're overdoing the undercut.
After it has set back on you there are three things you can do.
#1 Cuss, this always helps me. If a couple good epitaphs don't free your saw up proceed to step 2
#2 Kick something. Pick something soft liked a clump of dirt. I've been known to kick my hat but I usually save that for bigger problems. It sometimes helps to kick something while cursing. If that doesn't free the saw up you're really bad hung. Go to step 3
#3 Go hunting for another saw. Truly a last resort but sometimes we are forced to grasp at straws.

 

[smokechase II]

Usually

Often we ask for photos.

In this case, what is the name of the book?

 

[Bushler]

Right, save kicking the hat for after the tree goes over the stump and smashes the saw. Never over react.

You can usually get the motor off the saw, and somtimes then you can pull the bar out from the chain, which limits your loss, and also by taking the motor and bar out you can drive a wedge in over the chain, (knocks off a couple teeth) and get the tree down.

It usually happens right at quitting time.

 

[ropensaddle]

There isn't always a piece of equipment around to bail you out and I can't really see pushing over by hand that large of a tree so make sure you know the lean. If it truly has no lean (a rarity) it shouldn't set back on you unless you're overdoing the undercut.
After it has set back on you there are three things you can do.
#1 Cuss, this always helps me. If a couple good epitaphs don't free your saw up proceed to step 2
#2 Kick something. Pick something soft liked a clump of dirt. I've been known to kick my hat but I usually save that for bigger problems. It sometimes helps to kick something while cursing. If that doesn't free the saw up you're really bad hung. Go to step 3
#3 Go hunting for another saw. Truly a last resort but sometimes we are forced to grasp at straws.

My poker has pushed trees much larger than you would imagine up
to thirty inches although I don't recommend pushing them over twenty.
It makes fast work out of no risk type felling and two people can scoot!
I am guessing you would **** your britches if you knew what the poker
pole patent pending can accomplish It is better than the mighty
cancer curing saw the stihl heads rally you know the husky copy! ms361xp
:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Rookie1]

Id like to see pis of that patent pending poker stick.opcorn:

 

[ropensaddle]

Id like to see pis of that patent pending poker stick.opcorn:

I will have to make another proto type someone stole my first!

 

[Bushler]

Actually, the best solution is to avoid the hang up by using a plumb bob. As I get older, and older, (good accomplishment for a timber cutter) I find it more productive to take a little time and determine lean accurately.

One screw up will take up a lot of time, an hour lost is an hour lost. My normal cutting proceedure is to walk accross the top of the strip checking lean, a couple times a day. Remembering which trees lean how.

Not to say I don't get hung up...I do, probably once a week or so. Makes me mad. 5 minutes with a plumb bob will save an hour with ax and wedges and saves money too. A 3 oz sinker cost less than a new saw.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Often we ask for photos.

In this case, what is the name of the book?

"The Good Woodcutter's Guide" by Dave Johnson
(in the felling section)

 

[Rookie1]

I will have to make another proto type someone stole my first!

Youll have to make a miniature one to poke out the guys eye that stole the first one! ?You dont think hes going to beat you to the patant office do you?

 

[ropensaddle]

Youll have to make a miniature one to poke out the guys eye that stole the first one! ?You dont think hes going to beat you to the patant office do you?

Actually I was joking about patenting it as they are easy to make
but I do miss the one I made and used it a lot on new powerline
rows we cut. I will have to get me some more big poles and pvc
the poker I made out of scrap it is heavy sort of but it will push
twenty inch trees with authority. I have tried to explain how to make
one so anyone could make their own for speedy felling of small timber.
Remember the pvc makes it long so you have to have enough length
on you trailer to store it but with out the pvc you will likely break the
poles and have a dangerous situation coming your way.

 

[hammerlogging]

I've heard of old timers using push poles to get back leaners to fall, on the side of the mountain most of course want to fall downhill but there will be some up agasinst the bluff that need some help. Also, fellows having their sons walk witht them all day just pounding wedges, their bucket of wedges.

 

[Dadatwins]

The poker trick will work, but the one thing not brought up is wind. Assuming a perfectly calm day you assemble the poker and get the job done, but the slightest breeze on a tree full of leaves could be a disaster. When in doubt put a rope in it.

 

[smokechase II]

Upon further review of "The Good Woodcutter's Guide"

Hardly A Guide 2 stars (out of 5)
The author has an easy readable, style that found me reading the book in one evening. It is laced with humorous anecdotes, but that is where the "goodness" stops. The information on saw and tree safety is a gloss over at best and very disturbing considering the immense danger involved in proper cutting, never mind improper. A chainsaw manual from a reputable dealer has more safety and technique information than this book. Novices beware; this book will not teach you how to be a "good" woodcutter. The pages on selecting clothing at the Salvation Army and driving around in a beater of a truck would have been better used discussing wood cutting, but it obvious that his self-taught methods and his "it's not the right way, but the way I do it" attitude will get some unlucky beginner killed. Don't buy this book if you are looking for info on Chainsaw milling, he knows nothing about it.
A better title might have been "Subsistence Living with Pulp and Cordwood."

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The Good _Logger's_ Guide 3 stars
The title is misleading. While they mention sawmills in the title, there is precious little information on milling, 11 out of 212 pages. If you are looking for info on wood and drying it, try Hadley’s "Understanding Wood", and "Fine Woodworking On: Wood and How to dry it".

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Dubious Authenticity 2 stars
Although the "Good woodcutter's guide" reads well and is loaded with information from techniques to equipment, it does suffer from some shortcomings, most notably a lack of clarity in the description of potentially lethal activities and materials. For example, the discussion of chain saw "kickback" in which he disagrees with conventional wisdom is interesting, but if the novice is to follow advice that runs counter to other expert opinion, he'd better be supremely confident in the author's ability. I have found reason to question the reliability of some of the claims the author makes. An outstanding example is his advocating of a tree felling practice he calls the "open face" method in which the central concept is the cutting of a "notch of 90 degrees" in the trunk. The photographs and drawings shown decidedly contradict this since they appear to be 45 degree notches (Pgs. 91 and 109). It is actually mathematically impossible to cut a 90 degree notch in a trunk unless the bottom cut slopes upward to some degree, yet Mr. Johnson specifically states that the bottom cut must be a HORIZONTAL cut. Has he ever dropped a tree using his own method? I'd like to know how. If I'm going to engage in risky task like falling trees, I want to know that the person's advice I'm following can be counted on to be the safest available. I hate to be picky, but when the clock strikes thirteen, it's time to throw away the clock. On the other hand, if I've missed something, I'd appreciate an explanation and offer my apology.

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The Good Woodcutters Guide 3 stars
Dave Johnson is a practical guy, who writes a practical guide. He provides a very good review of chainsaw use, safety, and maintenance. He also does a pretty good job of discussing bucking, felling, and all other aspects of getting pine trees off your lot for money.
The other areas discussed, such as sawmills, and economics were interesting, but only cursory. If you are already proficient with a chainsaw, but want to know more about woodlot management, this is not your book.

My only two minor criticisms of the book are Johnson should use diagrams more when he is describing the techniques of felling, bucking etc. Also, it was evident that the author was biased to recommend products sold by his publisher. In particular, his acclaim of a sawmill that the publisher sells, even though he admits that he never used one.

If you are looking for a good book on using your chainsaw to get wood on the ground, this is the book for you.


---------------

A sad book. 1 star
This book might be of interest for experienced woodcutters but is useless for an inexperienced person who wants to learn about chainsaws. The author does not define any of the dozens of technical terms he uses.
As a retired professor of mathematics I am full of sympathy for people who have great difficulties with elementary notions of arithmetic and geometry. Dave Johnson is obviously one of those. One example among many: "Cubic inch displacement is the volume swept by the piston in a single full stroke. Basically, it is the diameter of the piston time the length of the stroke" (page 35). A good book editor should have protected the author from flaunting his shortcomings.

 

[Billy_Bob]

I should have mentioned to take the above book with a grain of salt, but I don't like to post negative comments in general.

Note that I also have also read "Professional Timber Falling" by Douglas Dent, White Paper: "Felling and Bucking Techniques for Woodland Owners" by Oregon State University Extension Service, and "A Guide to Tree Felling and Cross Cutting" by Occupational Safety and Health Service - New Zealand.

Then of course I've read chainsaw instruction manuals, the Oregon Maintenance and Safety Manual, and watched the Stihl chain Saw Safety, Operation & Maintenance DVD.

So having read all of the above, I can read the above book and recognize that there are many unsafe ideas suggested.

BUT... I always learn something from reading just about any book as I did reading this book. I frequently find tid bits of information hidden in different books on the same subject.

So just don't read that book first!

 

[ropensaddle]

The poker trick will work, but the one thing not brought up is wind. Assuming a perfectly calm day you assemble the poker and get the job done, but the slightest breeze on a tree full of leaves could be a disaster. When in doubt put a rope in it.

Yes, high wind does have an effect but the original post was ten inch
diameter trees and if you have some grunt, it would have to be gale
force winds with that small of tree. I am not saying to try the impossible
with this pole but I will tell ya I have pushed some you would never have
thought I could. If you do make one start small and don't try more than
you can handle and don't use it if property or injury could be likely and
after several you get the idea of its limitations.