So, how do I trim these things?

[clearance]

Treeseer - I.S.A. utility certification is not recognized by our or any other decent utility. No one would be allowed to work in close proximity with this "cerification". Might as well have gotten it out of a crackerjack box.
It is just the I.S.A. trying to be all knowing and important. I am a real certified utility arborist, I went to school for six weeks and worked in close proximity for 1200 supervised hours. I won't really argue the arborist part of my certification too much with you though. What this really means is that I am qualified to do tree work around power in the best interests of myself and the powerline, not the tree.

 

[treeseer]

I won't really argue the arborist part of my certification too much with you though. What this really means is that I am qualified to do tree work around power in the best interests of myself and the powerline, not the tree.

Clearance, I don't know enough about utility work to debate one certification over another. I do know that utility arbos in BC are active in the ISA cert program--one guy named Chris Martin or Doug Fisher with BC Hydro I think will be with me on a panel at the ISA conference in Nashville, discussing ways of pruning storm-damaged trees.

Even though the climber's safety comes first, and reliable electricity comes second, I think that the best interests of the tree can and should always be considered. Often what is best for the tree--less decay, for instances--is also best for the utility and the arbo.

You don't want to climb a rotten tree in 3-5 years, do you?

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Utility line clearance certification can only come from an employer. In order for anyone to be a utility line clearance arborist they need to fulfill requirements that are suggested by ISA/TCIA but in the end, it's an employer directed program. The same for the EHAP program.

The ISA's Utility Arbo CA test is a different issue. They are not considered line clearance tree trimmers. Two seperate issues.

 

[clearance]

Treeseer-we have had it out before about a few things but I am interested in you meeting I.S.A. guys that work for B.C. Hydro. Please make a point of asking them about how C.U.A.s in B.C. always climb with spurs, no matter what the correct way is thought to be by the experts. I never climb rotten trees-that is crazy, it calls for a line kill, undercut-backcut. Tom-If you don't feel you are a tree hugger, thats o.k. with me. As far as one handing a saw, it is not the safest thing to do, granted, but we do it all the time and are comfortable doing it, pretty hard not to when you climb conifers all day. In regards to risk management vs. risk elimination, you are right that risk can never be eliminated. I just feel a whole lot better cutting down a risk then leaving it to become a killer at a later date.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

No, I DO consider myself a tree hugger. It's just that I don't use your extreme definition.

When you one-hand, do you have a second tie-in? Another rope or lanyard around a TIP sturdy enough to support your weight if you fall?

 

[clearance]

Tom-I always climb with spurs and a steel core lanyard. Always secure in the tree, sometimes I am tied in with my climbing line as well. When is it that you cut a tree down, like how bad or dangerous does it have to be? One of the reasons why I have a problem with the I.S.A. is that non working arborists certified by them have asked me to do unsafe things. The best example is when they ask you to "wildlife" a tree at 10.15 or 20 feet. What they want is you to climb that tree, top it to that hieght and make your cuts so the tree appears to have broken off naturally. These trees are in parks with no bucket truck access or other trees to tie into. Some of them are stone cold dead, with no branches, holes, no top etc. And they, being I.S.A. certified, ask me to climb them, they probably have a hard time climbing out of bed never mind climbing trees. I reach up over my head with a 372 or 288 and cut them down. I'm not stupid, I know better than to climb them, but they have no problem asking people to risk thier lives doing stupid sh&t like that.

 

[treeseer]

When is it that you cut a tree down, like how bad or dangerous does it have to be?

Some arborists will cut trees down only when other options to lessen risk down to a level acceptable to the owner have been looked at and decided against. Some trees I've maintained were >90% hollow.

One of the reasons why I have a problem with the I.S.A. is that non working arborists certified by them have asked me to do unsafe things. , they probably have a hard time climbing out of bed never mind climbing trees.

Clearance, I have the same problem with ISA certification having so little connection to actual tree work. If someone is going to be deemed able to write specifications for tree work they oughta know how that work should and should not be done. I have 3 ISA certifications so I should know; the system is far from perfect, but it's still the best one around.

(You could send your concerns straight to the ISA; believe me they will be looked at. Very few members are involved enough to reply to surveys, etc., so input even from nonmembers is likely to be considered)

However, you can "wildlife" a tree far more safely without climbing it. Just lean a ladder up to the spot where you want to make the cut. If the ladder is fairly vertical, there is very little pressure on the trunk. You can set a rope in the top beforehand, to control the fall.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

In fact, you can free stand a ladder a foot or two away from a dangerous tree and support the ladder only with ropes. A technique best not talked about in the residential forum, nor practiced by an amateur.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Again, what does someone's certification have to do with practice? The best arbo that I know will never be a CA. He would be the model for the perfect arbo. He has the best balance of hard and soft skills and doesn't do a thing that isn't in the tree's best interest.

Do you understand what the certification program means? The person has been tested to have the knowledge set by the particular test. After they get the CA there is no police force around to make sure that the CA follows "the rules."

Do you challenge the CA when they want you to do things outside of "the rules" ? Ask them to justify their requests. Remember the thread where you were challenged to find examples of how spikes don't hurt trees? Since you didn't take the challenge I know that you know that they do. Otherwise you'd have shown differently. Do the same for the CAs.

 

[clearance]

Treeseer-thanks. I thought that you are not to use a chainsaw from a ladder. I know you are not to use saw over your head but I figure that a 7ft "wildlife" tree is better than a stump. I asked the arborist if we could bring in a hoe and stick logs in the ground to make wildlife trees, he didn't like that idea but it its way safer than what he wanted and didn't get.