So what's the current Two stroke oil favorite for

[LoneOak]

Of course you know it does because I provided as much to you. You simply don't want to admit you are wrong.

How can I be wrong about something I never stated?

To be clear are you disputing the combustion of Ethanol doesn't for form aldahydes? Because it's a absolute fact that it indeed does.

Nope, I'm merely pointing out your incorrect statement of the subject.

Read the highlighted paragraph below. I think a reasonable person would come to the conclusion that the formation of formaldehyde in a chainsaw muffler is not likely.

Most chainsaws don't have a catalytic converter and none have a 3 way catalyst.
So no its not mute. You are running a high percentage ethanol mix because you are paranoid about minute levels of benzene, only to expose yourself to something just as bad and in much higher levels.

I'm certainly not concerned about the miniscule levels of pollutants emitted from the exhaust of my O. P. E., If I were I would not be operating any kind of O. P. E. with out a hazmat suit.

I run E30 for the performance boost, cooler cleaner burn characteristics and low odor. I also like that there is less B.T.E.X. in all of my fuel.

The discussion was about the damage falsely attributed to Ethanol, that are in fact caused by the B.T.E.X. chemicals. You brought out the word "Formaldehyde" and I decided to bust your chops for it.

 

[bwalker]

How can I be wrong about something I never stated?


Nope, I'm merely pointing out your incorrect statement of the subject.

Read the highlighted paragraph below. I think a reasonable person would come to the conclusion that the formation of formaldehyde in a chainsaw muffler is not likely.
View attachment 954793


I'm certainly not concerned about the miniscule levels of pollutants emitted from the exhaust of my O. P. E., If I were I would not be operating any kind of O. P. E. with out a hazmat suit.

I run E30 for the performance boost, cooler cleaner burn characteristics and low odor. I also like that there is less B.T.E.X. in all of my fuel.

The discussion was about the damage falsely attributed to Ethanol, that are in fact caused by the B.T.E.X. chemicals. You brought out the word "Formaldehyde" and I decided to bust your chops for it.

You don't have a clue what your talking about.

 

[bwalker]

In addition here are lab results of gasoline made tonight on benzene content your so worried about.

 

[bwalker]

How can I be wrong about something I never stated?


Nope, I'm merely pointing out your incorrect statement of the subject.

Read the highlighted paragraph below. I think a reasonable person would come to the conclusion that the formation of formaldehyde in a chainsaw muffler is not likely.
View attachment 954793


I'm certainly not concerned about the miniscule levels of pollutants emitted from the exhaust of my O. P. E., If I were I would not be operating any kind of O. P. E. with out a hazmat suit.

I run E30 for the performance boost, cooler cleaner burn characteristics and low odor. I also like that there is less B.T.E.X. in all of my fuel.

The discussion was about the damage falsely attributed to Ethanol, that are in fact caused by the B.T.E.X. chemicals. You brought out the word "Formaldehyde" and I decided to bust your chops for it.

BTEX is at miniscule levels in gasoline and as such doesn't harm a thing.
I only bring Formaldehyde because it a fools errand to worry about miniscule amounts of BTEX while at he same time increasing the aldehyde emmissions of your motors.
And let's be honest. The only thing you know is based on Google. You have no refining industry expiereance nore any education in the subject. As a result you grasp at straws and reach false conclusions.
And last but not least. If you think E30 boosts your performance you are nuts. Unless lower HP, compromised lubrication and and increased fuel use is a boost in performance to you.

 

[LoneOak]

BTEX is at miniscule levels in gasoline and as such doesn't harm a thing.
I only bring Formaldehyde because it a fools errand to worry about miniscule amounts of BTEX while at he same time increasing the aldehyde emmissions of your motors.
And let's be honest. The only thing you know is based on Google. You have no refining industry expiereance nore any education in the subject. As a result you grasp at straws and reach false conclusions.
And last but not least. If you think E30 boosts your performance you are nuts. Unless lower HP, compromised lubrication and and increased fuel use is a boost in performance to you.

"BTEX is at miniscule levels in gasoline and as such doesn't harm a thing." So you don't understand what minuscule amounts add up too? And you think carcinogens are not harmful.
"I only bring Formaldehyde because it a fools errand to worry about miniscule amounts of BTEX while at he same time increasing the aldehyde emmissions of your motors." Again it's debatable whether or not it can even exist in the exhaust of a small engine.
"Formaldehyde is a kind of intermediate product in the combustion process. Temperature in the cylinder is so high that it is not suitable for the generation of formaldehyde, because the existing time in the high temperature gas is extremely short. Accordingly, it is mainly generated in the exhaust pipe from unburned methanol, and its generation depends on the amount of unburned methanol, exhaust temperature and reaction time." -© 2014 Jordan Journal of Mechanical and Industrial Engineering. All rights reserved - Volume 8, Number 2 (ISSN 1995-6665)

"And let's be honest. The only thing you know is based on Google. You have no refining industry expiereance nore any education in the subject. As a result you grasp at straws and reach false conclusions." <------ In Psychology, we call this "Narcissistic Deflection"

"And last but not least. If you think E30 boosts your performance you are nuts. Unless lower HP, compromised lubrication and and increased fuel use is a boost in performance to you." LOL, This is soooo 3rd grade! And you say I grasp at straws!

 

[bwalker]

"BTEX is at miniscule levels in gasoline and as such doesn't harm a thing." So you don't understand what minuscule amounts add up too? And you think carcinogens are not harmful.
"I only bring Formaldehyde because it a fools errand to worry about miniscule amounts of BTEX while at he same time increasing the aldehyde emmissions of your motors." Again it's debatable whether or not it can even exist in the exhaust of a small engine.
"Formaldehyde is a kind of intermediate product in the combustion process. Temperature in the cylinder is so high that it is not suitable for the generation of formaldehyde, because the existing time in the high temperature gas is extremely short. Accordingly, it is mainly generated in the exhaust pipe from unburned methanol, and its generation depends on the amount of unburned methanol, exhaust temperature and reaction time." -© 2014 Jordan Journal of Mechanical and Industrial Engineering. All rights reserved - Volume 8, Number 2 (ISSN 1995-6665)

"And let's be honest. The only thing you know is based on Google. You have no refining industry expiereance nore any education in the subject. As a result you grasp at straws and reach false conclusions." <------ In Psychology, we call this "Narcissistic Deflection"

"And last but not least. If you think E30 boosts your performance you are nuts. Unless lower HP, compromised lubrication and and increased fuel use is a boost in performance to you." LOL, This is soooo 3rd grade! And you say I grasp at straws!

You have been lead to water..

 

[JRM]

Ultra really is terrible oil sold at top dollar. Any other OEM oil is much better.

Sources?

 

[bwalker]

That's a pretty bold claim, what are your sources?

Stihl itself. Ultra is a FB rated oil that's several generations behind the FD oils like Red Armour Husky XP, etc.
On top of that when the 361 first came out I was given two 6 packs of the stuff. Was astounded how dirty it was.

 

[jakethesnake]

Sources?

Stihl itself. Ultra is a FB rated oil that's several generations behind the FD oils like Red Armour Husky XP, etc.
On top of that when the 361 first came out I was given two 6 packs of the stuff. Was astounded how dirty it was.

I’d rather argue with walker 9/10 times. He’s probably not wrong on the ultra. I’d run basically anything but that. The orange bottle stihl is even superior.

a guy on another forum did some extensive testing. It ranked amongst the worst

the worst were stens , Lucas , ultra.
The winner was amsoil dominater
stihl orange bottle did perform well
Most decent oils did well.
Stay away from the three mentioned and you’ll be more than fine with a good tune

 

[JRM]

So no real source, just opinion. Thanks.

 

[jakethesnake]

So no real source, just opinion. Thanks.

I’d give you a link to the thread but it can’t be posted here.

 

[jakethesnake]

Honestly run whatever you like. It was torture tested at 300:1. Along with a crap ton of other oils. The orange bottle stihl did far better than the silver. I listed the worst performances. Those are 3 I’d not use.

I’m not the only one on this thread that saw it. Some builders of ported saws including some at this website switched to the amsoil dominater.

because of egg shooters test….
I’ll switch myself when I run out of oil again.

dead serious just trying to help.

 

[jakethesnake]

So no real source, just opinion. Thanks.

Here’s my source. Again this was a torture test. But lots of us were shocked. No one should run 200:1.

 

[JRM]

I appreciate the feedback. I'm certainly not brand loyal and am not defending the oil. But without seeing verified testing it is hard not to question claims like that....Stihl happens to make a pretty good saw, it is hard to imagine they can not spec an equally good oil.
Here is an question, if the standard oil is better than the Ultra why does Stihl double the warranty with purchase of the Ultra but not the standard? Does Stihl not know their own products? It is a genuine question, not looking for arguments. Thanks.

 

[jakethesnake]

I appreciate the feedback. I'm certainly not brand loyal and am not defending the oil. But without seeing verified testing it is hard not to question claims like that....Stihl happens to make a pretty good saw, it is hard to imagine they can not spec an equally good oil.
Here is an question, if the standard oil is better than the Ultra why does Stihl double the warranty with purchase of the Ultra but not the standard? Does Stihl not know their own products? It is a genuine question, not looking for arguments. Thanks.

Stihl makes a damn fine saw. One of the best. I’m not sure why their best oil is so expensive I’ve heard if it’s ran at 50:1 it does ok. From again a source that builds saws. I’m not an oil guy. I run whatever.
After reading here and there for years and seeing photos of what the silver bottle stihl does Well that’s why I steer people away from it.
Lucas wore a saw out for me. Every builder hates it.
So that’s why those two are especially a no go for me.
Im no scientist Man lol. Just learned from observation from myself and those I trust on the websites I frequent

 

[jakethesnake]

I’ve seen some photos of stihl ultra ran at higher ratios say 40:1 Seems to leave a bunch of crap deposits everywhere. To the point of sticking rings. With the zillion other options out there I try to point others in a different direction.

 

[BerkshirePaws]

For decades ran a couple of old Homelites, a cheap poulan and on old Jonsered. Used any two stroke (not outboard) oil that came to hand. About a year ago I broke down and bought a bright shiny new Husqvarna 460. Figured after dropping that coin I’d go with their oil. XP+. To tell the truth never noticed much difference with the before and don’t now but for the five gallons of mix I burn a year (+/-) I figure why not. Mix with E0 gas and all is good. Anyone have any issues with the XP+?

On a side note, I wonder how useful the torture test of 300:1 ratios is. I kind of feel like yes it tells you which oil is better at extreme low ratio but it’s nowhere near real world use. Not saying the Stihl oil is good or not, just saying that testing anything way outside the normal use parameters is of very limited utility.

 

[jakethesnake]

For decades ran a couple of old Homelites, a cheap poulan and on old Jonsered. Used any two stroke (not outboard) oil that came to hand. About a year ago I broke down and bought a bright shiny new Husqvarna 460. Figured after dropping that coin I’d go with their oil. XP+. To tell the truth never noticed much difference with the before and don’t now but for the five gallons of mix I burn a year (+/-) I figure why not. Mix with E0 gas and all is good. Anyone have any issues with the XP+?

On a side note, I wonder how useful the torture test of 300:1 ratios is. I kind of feel like yes it tells you which oil is better at extreme low ratio but it’s nowhere near real world use. Not saying the Stihl oil is good or not, just saying that testing anything way outside the normal use parameters is of very limited utility.

I believe xp did well. It’s not on my no go list. Agree. 200-1 was the test. Some may have been tested at 300. I forgot. But I figure the chainsaw oils that held up to that should hold up to say a lean tune
It was surprising how well some regular chainsaw oils did at lean ratio torture tests.

 

[JRM]

On a side note, I wonder how useful the torture test of 300:1 ratios is. I kind of feel like yes it tells you which oil is better at extreme low ratio but it’s nowhere near real world use. Not saying the Stihl oil is good or not, just saying that testing anything way outside the normal use parameters is of very limited utility.

My thoughts exactly. It's not very telling, especially not knowing the variables. What saws were used? Was it a true non bias test? How exact were the ratios? New or used engines? If used, how many hours on each engine? Was ALL the previous mix completely drained and ran out?
Lots of questions for sure. Like you, I began using Stihl oil when I bought my new 460 many years ago. I figured based on the warranty it couldn't be a bad oil, the saw is now pushing 15 years on Stihl oil with no teardown. I've got a few newer saws with more hours, same results. But I am just a homeowner and only cut 12-15 cords a year plus clean up and the occasional favor for a friend or family member.

 

[huskihl]

I appreciate the feedback. I'm certainly not brand loyal and am not defending the oil. But without seeing verified testing it is hard not to question claims like that....Stihl happens to make a pretty good saw, it is hard to imagine they can not spec an equally good oil.
Here is an question, if the standard oil is better than the Ultra why does Stihl double the warranty with purchase of the Ultra but not the standard? Does Stihl not know their own products? It is a genuine question, not looking for arguments. Thanks.

I’ve ported saws for 7-8 years now, hoping to have enough to do it full time this year. So I dig into about 150 saws per year. Here’s what I’ve learned. Folks who run Ultra at 50:1 have “relatively “ clean pistons and cylinders. But on the newer strato saws there is no excess oil anywhere. The bottom end bearings are dry. Even the crank journals are dry to the touch. This would indicate the need for more oil. If you run it at 32:1, the bottom end is still marginally lubricated, but carbon buildup is everywhere. This buildup shows evidence of flaking off also. I’ve seen this flaking cause smearing on the piston when a chunk gets caught at the top of the exhaust port. It builds carbon because it’s an fb rated oil. FC and FD rated oils have detergent in them and some will actually run cleaner with more oil in the mix. The difference in both the amount of carbon formed and residual oil left behind between Stihl Ultra and Red Armor is staggering.