Soaking firewood in old used motor oil?
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jags
ArboristSite Guru
I think the many places that were dumping the oil down a floor drain may have had something to do with the regulation.
And for the record: burning an oil soaked log in a barrel stove WILL result in particulate emissions (pollution) that is dangerous to humans.
I ain't a "greeny", but this thread is full of misgivings, misinformation and down right silly assumptions that waste oil can be safely burned in a barrel stove without a negative impact. Hell - if the EPA says you can't do it with WOOD (hence the EPA wood stove regulations) - you ain't gonna do it with a wood/waste oil combo.
reread ur statement & evaluate= ure not saying ???????/ time to induct some defference!:newbie::newbie:
AIM
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'm gonna keep my opinions silent for NOW. But I will jump in and say that I can think of no less than a half a dozen farmers, heavy machinery shops, and homeowners work shops that are heated with the oil drip method in a barrel stove.
All of the ones I know of are made from 275 gallon fuel oil tanks and CRANK out the heat!
Only problem I see with them is the mess. (sooner or later you end up spilling oil no matter how hard you try not to.)
Nobody in my area of the world has a single issue with it. If they do they stay quiet about it.
All of the ones I know of are made from 275 gallon fuel oil tanks and CRANK out the heat!
Only problem I see with them is the mess. (sooner or later you end up spilling oil no matter how hard you try not to.)
Nobody in my area of the world has a single issue with it. If they do they stay quiet about it.
jags
ArboristSite Guru
Wrong! It was breaking the law to dump waste oil down a floor drain for many, many years before the EPA waste oil regulations. A law and a regulation are two separate things.
A law is made by lawmakers, according to constitutional guidelines, and is susceptible to review by the Supreme Court. If you are arrested for breaking a law you are presumed innocent until proven guilty, and afforded your day in court. If you’re found guilty, you’re a punished according to the criminal code.
A regulation is just that... a regulation. It isn’t made by lawmakers and it isn’t susceptible to review by the Supreme Court. It is simply a way to circumvent the constitution... most regulations would have no chance passing constitutional scrutiny. Regulations are drawn up by a regulatory commission, which usually appointed and have unchecked power. If you are suspected of breaking a regulation you are not given your day in court, you are presumed guilty and fined willy-nilly by a regulatory commission (such as the EPA)... as I said, most are designed to increase government revenue. Rarely will you see a company shut down by a regulatory commission because... well... their purpose is to collect revenue, and shutting something down means no more revenue.
Show me where the EPA says you CAN’T do it. You can still by the kits to make your own barrel stove for as little as $30.oo. How can that be? There isn’t any regulation that prevents me from building a barrel stove, or a waste oil burner, or whatever. Even the EPA is smart enough to know they wouldn’t get away with that unless they can prove there is a danger that exceeds what they allow your local power company to get away with.
Guess what, a barrel stove will run just as clean as a modern EPA stove if you know what you’re doing (even with used oil soaked logs). The EPA stoves just makes it less likely the stove will burn crappy if an idiot is running it... But they can’t completely eliminate the idiot; an EPA stove can still be improperly run. The key to secondary burn (that’s what the EPA regs are supposed to be accomplishing) is enough heat... and oil will not smolder, it just burns hot... plenty hot enough to start the secondary burn.
The EPA regs are nothing more than Big Brother trying to protect us from ourselves...
ONE HUGE LINE OF BS SWALLOWED BY THOSE WHO REFUSE TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES!
So... what about man made Global Warming... are you buying into that one also?
jags
ArboristSite Guru
And the regulation was created because there were no RULES on the proper handling.
The EPA says you can't burn as clean without the technology that the new stoves provide. Hence the EPA certification. I said nothing of building a barrel stove.
I believe that this statement will stand as ludicrous even without a debate. A standard old barrel stove does NOT have the design or ability to burn the gaseous volatiles produces by wood, let alone the ability to cook off the nasty crap in used motor oil, unless you were maintaining thousands of degrees (like an incinerator). It just doesn't. But you are also correct in your statement that an EPA stove can be operated improperly.
No - EPA regs are trying to protect others from people that would pollute our water supply or smog the very air we are trying to breath.
(I honestly can't believe that I am defending the EPA here)
You may wish to stop and think about the many lives the EPA has saved by the regulation of what is acceptable in our water supply. Or what is allowable for a factory to pump into the air (acid rain anybody?). How about acceptable air environments in the local steel factory or coal plant. How did that DDT work out for ya? The rivers and eagles thought it was great stuff.
You do what you wish - it is your right until you infringe upon someone else. But don't be disillusioned that burning waste oil in your barrel stove is somehow non-polluting. Even the best run EPA stove has SOME particulates. An incinerator has an ACCEPTABLE stack emission.
SHOW ME WHERE THE EPA SAYS YOU CAN'T!
Show me the study that backs up the statement that you can't burn as clean!
The EPA certified stoves only make it less likely that you won't burn as clean!
Until you can show me... everything else in your post means nothing! Everything else is based on the premise that you CAN'T!
I have never, ever seen anything to support the statement that you CAN'T!
Are you trying to tell me it's impossible to burn clean in a stove unless it comes with a paper tag from the EPA? That unless it has that paper tag attached it is somehow unable to obtain the temperature and air flow required to achieve secondary burn? Are you drinking Kool-Aid?
Give me a break!
jags
ArboristSite Guru
Oh boy-
1970's:A typical airtight woodstove of this vintage emits 40-60 grams of particulates into the airshed every hour, and airborne wood smoke particulates become a problem in rural areas where woodburning is prevalent.
July 1, 1990: Phase II regulations go into effect. All woodstoves manufactured after this date must comply with Phase II limits of 7.5 grams/hr (4.1 grams/hr if catalytic equipped).
In all fairness - they didn't say that whitespiders barrel stove CAN'T. So I guess you got me there.
Boy - all those people that bought gassifiers must be really ticked off now. Knowing that could be just as energy efficient with an old barrel stove.
1970's:A typical airtight woodstove of this vintage emits 40-60 grams of particulates into the airshed every hour, and airborne wood smoke particulates become a problem in rural areas where woodburning is prevalent.
July 1, 1990: Phase II regulations go into effect. All woodstoves manufactured after this date must comply with Phase II limits of 7.5 grams/hr (4.1 grams/hr if catalytic equipped).
In all fairness - they didn't say that whitespiders barrel stove CAN'T. So I guess you got me there.
Boy - all those people that bought gassifiers must be really ticked off now. Knowing that could be just as energy efficient with an old barrel stove.
If a stove could be made so that the primary air cant be closed & pass EPA testing, it would exist & be a cheaper stove to buy. It seems, though, that to pass the EPA, the stoves require the secondary burntube configuration which provide constant air & also STRATIFY & PREHEAT that air for efficient combustion
Blazin
Addicted to ArboristSite
Jezuz...just soak the floors in the stinkin house with used motor oil and light it....talk bout BTU's, nice and warm and the used #### got used.
EPA won't give a hoot either, all the plastic furniture in the joint that gets expended will throw em off track.
EPA won't give a hoot either, all the plastic furniture in the joint that gets expended will throw em off track.
This is getting almost funny.
Back some 35+ years ago I built my first wood stove from a heavy steel oil drum. Being the country boy I was I didn't buy a kit, I just used the welder and torch to fashion my own parts. My grandfather happened to stop by as I was building and suggested I weld some baffles (he didn't call them baffles, don't remember exactly what he called them) in the top and down at the draft vent. He told me my stove would make more heat and the chimney would stay clean if I did. That steel oil drum was the type that you removed the band and the whole end lifted off so it was fairly easy to weld a series of baffles along the top. He also suggested I install two smaller draft vents instead of a single larger one and baffle the air flow back on itself (sort of a swirl) and that would heat the air a bit and force some of it up the sides and over the top of the fire. Because the end of that barrel lifted of it was fairly easy to install a grate for the fire to sit above the draft vents, and remove ashes when needed. I used that stove for 5-years and never needed to clean the chimney, it never had more than a thin coating of soot in it that would wipe right off with your finger.
Heck, Granddad was building clean burning wood stoves long before the EPA even thought of "regulating" them. It was the cheap, mass-produced stoves that were crap... just like most of the cheap mass-produced stuff during the 70's and early 80's.
Back some 35+ years ago I built my first wood stove from a heavy steel oil drum. Being the country boy I was I didn't buy a kit, I just used the welder and torch to fashion my own parts. My grandfather happened to stop by as I was building and suggested I weld some baffles (he didn't call them baffles, don't remember exactly what he called them) in the top and down at the draft vent. He told me my stove would make more heat and the chimney would stay clean if I did. That steel oil drum was the type that you removed the band and the whole end lifted off so it was fairly easy to weld a series of baffles along the top. He also suggested I install two smaller draft vents instead of a single larger one and baffle the air flow back on itself (sort of a swirl) and that would heat the air a bit and force some of it up the sides and over the top of the fire. Because the end of that barrel lifted of it was fairly easy to install a grate for the fire to sit above the draft vents, and remove ashes when needed. I used that stove for 5-years and never needed to clean the chimney, it never had more than a thin coating of soot in it that would wipe right off with your finger.
Heck, Granddad was building clean burning wood stoves long before the EPA even thought of "regulating" them. It was the cheap, mass-produced stoves that were crap... just like most of the cheap mass-produced stuff during the 70's and early 80's.
AIM
Addicted to ArboristSite
Just give it up whitespider. Ya just can't beat newfound knowledge with good ol country folk common sense.
Yes I know I'll hear about how this good ol common sense is the damnation of the earth, but I'm a believer that a few guys burnin oil isn't a pimple on the ass of this worlds problems.
Yes I know I'll hear about how this good ol common sense is the damnation of the earth, but I'm a believer that a few guys burnin oil isn't a pimple on the ass of this worlds problems.
chowdozer
Addicted to ArboristSite
Fabulous idea.
Be right back... I am going to go cram as many splits into my truck crankcase as I can. I see a gas mileage improvement on the horizon.
Be right back... I am going to go cram as many splits into my truck crankcase as I can. I see a gas mileage improvement on the horizon.
barnumb
ArboristSite Operative
This thread is FUNNY!!!!!!!
drobs
New Member
1st post but I have to chime in on this insanity.
Boy - just think of the millions of old and new fireplaces out there pumping out pre 1970's particulates...
Your EPA arguements are flawed when you move outside the "box" of wood burning stoves.
It would be interesting to compare particulate estimates of burning: wood in a fireplace vs wood stoves (pick your epa year) vs Waste Oil vs the monkey in the room COAL vs LP vs Kerosene vs Natural Gas. (I'm these tables exist somewhere)
Keep on the EPA track and you will see all fireplaces and wood stoves regulated out of existence - California, Washington, and Oregon come to mind.
To ramble a little more... that big monkey in the room is COAL fired electrical plants - if I had to guess they put out way more polutants than Joe using waste oil treated logs in his wood burning stove.
What's the particulate estimate on a 4th of July for millions of Webber charcoal grills used in America?
See where I'm going with this EPA love insanity?
Boy - just think of the millions of old and new fireplaces out there pumping out pre 1970's particulates...
Your EPA arguements are flawed when you move outside the "box" of wood burning stoves.
It would be interesting to compare particulate estimates of burning: wood in a fireplace vs wood stoves (pick your epa year) vs Waste Oil vs the monkey in the room COAL vs LP vs Kerosene vs Natural Gas. (I'm these tables exist somewhere)
Keep on the EPA track and you will see all fireplaces and wood stoves regulated out of existence - California, Washington, and Oregon come to mind.
To ramble a little more... that big monkey in the room is COAL fired electrical plants - if I had to guess they put out way more polutants than Joe using waste oil treated logs in his wood burning stove.
What's the particulate estimate on a 4th of July for millions of Webber charcoal grills used in America?
See where I'm going with this EPA love insanity?
Ain't that the truth.
I'll stick with country folk common sense...
I've never seen anyone from the EPA (or any other government agency for that matter) out here on the Great Plains during a three day blizzard helpin' us country folk out. I sure would like to see one of those idiots out trying to take care of livestock when it's -20, wind blowin' 50 MPH, wind chill off the charts and visibility down to less than a foot. Instead they issue us a warning that we shouldn't go outside because exposed skin will freeze in seconds... what a line of crap.
The ####-heads will show up in June though... and fine us because someone left the lid off a bucket of mineral spirits... and tell us how much better things would be if "we did things their way". Makes me wann'a spit on their clean white shirts!
I guess I'm done with this thread. Y'all wann'a believe that my wood stove, or waste oil burner is destroying the planet... fine with me. Y'all wann'a believe that an EPA certified stove is built with some newly discovered technology (good lord, it's a wood burning stove)... fine, go ahead and believe what ya' want. Sure is a wonder how the planet survives all those forest fires and volcano eruptions though ain't it? I mean, think of the pollution and particulate emissions, holy crap!
Excuse me, but right now I need to go wash the greazy soot of my windshield so I can drive into town... cause the oxygen tanks that keep us alive are about empty. Well, unless the roads are still plugged with 6-foot snow drifts... then I guess will just haft'a hope some government agency will show up to save us.
chowdozer
Addicted to ArboristSite
Way more as a whole or per capita?
Or should some people be allowed to pollute more than others? What I call the 'Al Gore' effect.
Alan Smith
ArboristSite Operative
it is not the EPA job to help but to de·stroy in the name of doing good
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