soft dutchmen

[John Ellison]

Wow.

Lucky it was only a little tree, almost no hinge, backcut the same height as the felling notch, pretty bad cutting in my book.

Personally, I can't understand why a "standard" dutchman wouldn't have worked equally as well to turn that tree, with under half the time taken as using the technique shown.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't see the benefit in putting all those cuts in on the dutch cut side.

Nobody knows about that particular tree except for the guy that fell it. A regular dutchman can have a pretty abrupt change of direction. The soft dutchman makes it less likely to stall out if it has to swing a good ways.

There is the swing dutchman, the soft dutchman, the ultra soft dutchman. Does anybody ever use the Charmin Dutchman?

 

[RRSsawshop]

LOL...Maybe that "Charmin dutchman"would be soft enough for the red oak I'm droppin right now ACORNS FLYING EVERYWHERE when they hit the ground!!

 

[fmaglin]

Well, on that particular tree the soft dutchman worked for accomplishing what that faller wanted the tree to do. That's not saying a regular dutchman, or another technique wouldn't have worked just as well, but he used what he felt comfortable with and had confidence in. I get this all of the time. Someone will say "why didn't you do it this way" ; or " I never do it like that". It all comes down to different strokes for different folks.

 

[hammerlogging]

LOL...Maybe that "Charmin dutchman"would be soft enough for the red oak I'm droppin right now ACORNS FLYING EVERYWHERE when they hit the ground!!

Our deer should be heading your way then. WV has a zero mast year it seems. Acorns should be falling everywhere when pounding on wedges, but.... nothing.

 

[RRSsawshop]

Our deer should be heading your way then. WV has a zero mast year it seems. Acorns should be falling everywhere when pounding on wedges, but.... nothing.

Red oaks are loaded with acorns up here BUT I'm also finding a lot of dead ones.... both red and white ???? Some right next to one another... some standing alone???

 

[Greystoke]

Respect

Wow.

Lucky it was only a little tree, almost no hinge,

backcut the same height as the felling notch, pretty bad cutting in my book.

Your message smacks with arrogance. :monkey: The guy in that video is obviously an excellent Timber Faller and he deserves some respect. I have worked with some of the best Timber Fallers in the world, hands down...who knew when to use a higher backcut, and when NOT to. That is why you are over there and not here, because if you showed up on the same job sites that I have worked on with a comment like that, you would have gotten tramped.

 

[Greystoke]

The soft dutchman makes it less likely to stall out if it has to swing a good ways.

Well said

Does anybody ever use the Charmin Dutchman?

 

[Kiwilogger]

Wow.


Lucky it was only a little tree, almost no hinge, backcut the same height as the felling notch, pretty bad cutting in my book.

Your message smacks with arrogance. :monkey: The guy in that video is obviously an excellent Timber Faller and he deserves some respect. I have worked with some of the best Timber Fallers in the world, hands down...who knew when to use a higher backcut, and when NOT to. That is why you are over there and not here, because if you showed up on the same job sites that I have worked on with a comment like that, you would have gotten tramped.

You obviously have a far superior knowledge, and obviously have fallen far more and bigger trees than I, and most obviously have known far superior fallers to I. I bow to your superiority.

opcorn:

 

[Gologit]

You obviously have a far superior knowledge, and obviously have fallen far more and bigger trees than I, and most obviously have known far superior fallers to I. I bow to your superiority.

opcorn:

:hmm3grin2orange:Okay...you two guys will have to ride in different crummies...I can see that right now.

 

[Greystoke]

Professional Timber Fallers

You obviously have a far superior knowledge, and obviously have fallen far more and bigger trees than I, and most obviously have known far superior fallers to I. I bow to your superiority.

opcorn:

Obviously I do have a far superior knowledge, because I know an excellent timber faller when I see one, like the guy in that video...you on the other hand get on here and say he is using bad cutting techniques I guarantee that guy could make you look like a little schoolboy in the timber falling world As far as me falling more trees? I'm not sure , however, as far as BIGGER trees...all of your LITTLE trees put together might equal my one!:bringit:

Cheers Mate!

 

[fmaglin]

Obviously I do have a far superior knowledge, because I know an excellent timber faller when I see one, like the guy in that video...you on the other hand get on here and say he is using bad cutting techniques I guarantee that guy could make you look like a little schoolboy in the timber falling world As far as me falling more trees? I'm not sure , however, as far as BIGGER trees...all of your LITTLE trees put together might equal my one!:bringit:

Cheers Mate!

Very well put Tarzan

 

[Kiwilogger]

Keep telling the story, tarzan.

:Eye:

 

[Greystoke]

The Story

Keep telling the story, tarzan.

:Eye:

Crikey, you sure got my dander up mate! I just wanted to let you know that I respect anyone who works in the timber industry. I feel that it is a brotherhood, and something to be proud of, especially since it has come under the scrutiny of so many tree huggers. I also know that I have worked around some of the best, and when someone from the other side of the world, comments on something the way you did, it gets my defense up. Anybody can cut down a tree, but to do it gracefully is something to be proud of. I fell timber for Columbia Helicopters, among others, mostly on the Pacific Coast, and Alaska, and have worked with so many different calibers of Timber Fallers, and I know that there was a handfull of them that were the best in our country! I don't know what it is like to cut timber "down under", but to work in the timber falling environments that I have, only the best Timber Fallers shined! I would love to come over there and fall timber, and maybe I will someday, but I will not be mocking your techniques, until I have been there, and seen for myself, what works, and what doesn't. That being said; can't we all just get along?

 

[RRSsawshop]

Keep telling the story, tarzan.

:Eye:

Can't believe your attacking Tarzan,he has helped more people than you realize!!!
Kiwilogger, you certainly entitled to your opinion but S:censored:T man go cut a eucalyptus tree and chill out!!!!

 

[hammerlogging]

Keep telling the story, tarzan.

:Eye:

Nothing against either of you, but I thought it was a pretty witty response: short, concise.....quality marks in the world of ####talking.

I've gotten great results from it on the handful of soft and hard hardwoods I've tried it on over the last few days, better luck than with the generic (single ply) dutchman. Of course, if its a money tree, or has any head lean, I'm boring it! But thats another thread. I'll be sure to get my earful there about it.

 

[Kiwilogger]

Gee whiz.

Don't take it all to heart you guys.


I had a different opinion than anyone else here, so be it. opcorn:

Just because I had a differing opinion, doesn't make me arrogant, it makes me opinionated. Oh, and tarzan, I don't roll over when some one calls me arrogant just because I had an opinion, I never will. And over here, suggesting someone would get tramped because of a comment made about a felling technique would be the start of a knuckle up. I guess some things in logging never change, no matter what part of the world you live in.

I tell you straight up, and I'll still suggest, from what I saw, that tree was no where near a heavy leaner, and need not much else than a wedge or 2 in the quarter cut. Dutch cut, yep, definitely saves a wing cut but I didn't see any reason there to go to the extent putting all those cuts into that tree. Here in NZ, that was illegal, and would have him stood down for a week. For starters he cut off 30% of the hinge with the dutch cut, and the rest of the hinge, to me, looked under 5% of the diameter, and the backcut was at best level with the notch.

I never suggested he was a bad faller, I've been guilty of doing illegal drives and dutchmen plenty of times, my stumps are never perfect, except in difficult falling. It's all subjective. He was obviously experienced.
The only other thing I'll say about that tree, is putting all those cuts in takes time, and production felling is hardcore.


Maybe he was just showing the technique?

Falling like that, no way you would keep up dropping trees for a yarder over here. opcorn: The yarder would smoke him.

 

[056kid]

Gee whiz.

Don't take it all to heart you guys.


I had a different opinion than anyone else here, so be it. opcorn:

Just because I had a differing opinion, doesn't make me arrogant, it makes me opinionated. Oh, and tarzan, I don't roll over when some one calls me arrogant just because I had an opinion, I never will. And over here, suggesting someone would get tramped because of a comment made about a felling technique would be the start of a knuckle up. I guess some things in logging never change, no matter what part of the world you live in.

I tell you straight up, and I'll still suggest, from what I saw, that tree was no where near a heavy leaner, and need not much else than a wedge or 2 in the quarter cut. Dutch cut, yep, definitely saves a wing cut but I didn't see any reason there to go to the extent putting all those cuts into that tree. Here in NZ, that was illegal, and would have him stood down for a week. For starters he cut off 30% of the hinge with the dutch cut, and the rest of the hinge, to me, looked under 5% of the diameter, and the backcut was at best level with the notch.

I never suggested he was a bad faller, I've been guilty of doing illegal drives and dutchmen plenty of times, my stumps are never perfect, except in difficult falling. It's all subjective. He was obviously experienced.
The only other thing I'll say about that tree, is putting all those cuts in takes time, and production felling is hardcore.


Maybe he was just showing the technique?

Falling like that, no way you would keep up dropping trees for a yarder over here. opcorn: The yarder would smoke him.

Hahaha

you are a funny guy....

 

[John Ellison]

I know there are a lot of variations of a swing dutchman and a lot that I have never seen. But, everything that worked has somewhere around a third of the lower part of the hinge cut. How would they work otherwise? Kiwilogger do you know of one?
Going back again and looking at the film at 20 sec. in the tree looks to me like it has a pretty good lean. For me that much wedging would take some time, but them I'm a whimp.

 

[Greystoke]

"These are the Days of Our Lives"

Kiwilogger;1732380]

Just because I had a differing opinion, doesn't make me arrogant, it makes me opinionated.

Say what you will, but when you say an obviously excellent timber faller, has bad techniques, that's arrogance in my book

Oh, and tarzan,

I don't roll over when some one calls me arrogant just because I had an opinion, I never will.

And over here, suggesting someone would get tramped because of a comment made about a felling technique would be the start of a knuckle up. I guess some things in logging never change, no matter what part of the world you live in.

Nor do I :bringit:

I tell you straight up, and I'll still suggest, from what I saw, that tree was no where near a heavy leaner, and need not much else than a wedge or 2 in the quarter cut. Dutch cut, yep, definitely saves a wing cut but I didn't see any reason there to go to the extent putting all those cuts into that tree.

Now that sounds like an opinion.

Here in NZ, that was illegal, and would have him stood down for a week. For starters he cut off 30% of the hinge with the dutch cut, and the rest of the hinge, to me, looked under 5% of the diameter, and the backcut was at best level with the notch.

That is why "You would not make it in my world, and I would not make it in yours". Unfortunately, OSHA has started to micromanage a GOOD Timber Fallers bag of tricks here, and when I see people going along with techniques like a raised backcut(a good Faller knows when to use it, and when it is NOT NEEDED) I will always be there to challenge some of the rules in the book.

He was obviously experienced.

About time to give credit where credit is due

The only other thing I'll say about that tree, is putting all those cuts in takes time, and production felling is hardcore.

I was a Busheler for most of my career, so I know about production falling...I also know that if a guy is an experienced, well seasoned Faller, it takes way less time to swing a tree around than it does to be a "wedge beater", but again a good faller knows when and when not to beat on wedges.

Maybe he was just showing the technique?

Yep...and an excellent video display of techniques IMHO...I would challenge anybody on here to give it a go, and see how it turns out

Falling like that, no way you would keep up dropping trees for a yarder over here. The yarder would smoke him.

What?...Highball Yarder Logging was invented, and perfected here, and I would put a highball Gyppo crew here(along with their Fallers who know how to stay ahead, or they get tramped) against one there any day of the week...I know; I know, I am being arrogant now, I can't help it:bang:

Gdday Pardner

 

[Greystoke]

I know there are a lot of variations of a swing dutchman and a lot that I have never seen. But, everything that worked has somewhere around a third of the lower part of the hinge cut. How would they work otherwise? Kiwilogger do you know of one?
Going back again and looking at the film at 20 sec. in

the tree looks to me like it has a pretty good lean. For me that much wedging would take some time, but them I'm a whimp.

Sounds like experience to me