Some one is in trouble

[juststumps]

Woman Indicted in Tahoe Tree Cutting
Published: 1/23/08, 7:25 PM EDT
By SCOTT SONNER
RENO, Nev. (AP) - A woman has been indicted on charges alleging she had three large trees up to a century old cut down on sensitive federal land near Lake Tahoe to improve her view, prosecutors said Wednesday.

Officials said they weren't aware of any similar federal prosecutions.

Patricia M. Vincent, 58, was indicted last week on charges of theft of government property and willingly damaging government property. If convicted, she faces up to 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine for each count.

The three ponderosa pines stood on a plot the U.S. Forest Service had designated as environmentally sensitive as part of a water quality plan to help protect the clarity of Lake Tahoe. The trees were estimated at 80 to 100 years old; trees that age would be at least 2 feet in diameter at the base of the trunk.

"It is important that public lands, which are held in trust for the benefit of all citizens, are appropriately protected by our land management agencies," U.S. Attorney Gregory Brower said in a news release. "Individuals who unlawfully encroach on these lands and cause damage will be prosecuted."

Forest Service spokesman Rex Norman said there have been other cases of trees being cut down illegally on national forest land in the Tahoe Basin but he was not aware of any similar federal prosecution. Natalie Collins, a spokeswoman for the U.S. attorney in Las Vegas, said she also did not recall any similar prosecution.

The indictment accuses Vincent of hiring a commercial tree removal business in April to cut down the trees to enhance her view in Incline Village, one of the wealthiest towns on the shore of the mountain resort lake.

The damage exceeded $10,000, the indictment said.

Vincent could not be reached for comment and there was no indication if she had a lawyer. There is no telephone listing for a Patricia Vincent in Incline Village and there was no immediate response to calls and a fax message sent to a number listed for Robert Vincent at her address.

(This version CORRECTS that Natalie Collins is a spokeswoman for the U.S. attorney, instead of the Justice Department.)

 

[hornett22]

scared me for a second.

i thought you were gonna say it was Martha Stewart or Hillary.

 

[Dadatwins]

Any one that has the money to cut down trees for a better view of a lake will have the $$ to pay a lawyer to say she did not know better and is very sorry. She will probably gladly plant some new trees to replace the ones that were cut down. Did someone say it was better to ask forgiveness than permission?

 

[treemandan]

Any one that has the money to cut down trees for a better view of a lake will have the $$ to pay a lawyer to say she did not know better and is very sorry. She will probably gladly plant some new trees to replace the ones that were cut down. Did someone say it was better to ask forgiveness than permission?

That would be her best bet, it sounds like it could be a honest mistake but possibly she tried a fast one.. The lure of the American Dream( house with a view) can be overwhelming.

 

[treeman82]

i thought you were gonna say it was Martha Stewart or Hillary.

I think Hillary has enough on her plate, especially with the cheating, murdering neighbor.

 

[techdave]

I doubt it was an honest mistake

Most of these hosers know where their property lines are and are the first people to scream bloody murder if the line is crossed by someone else.

Not to mention, just as all in and around LJ and Del Mar know you cant mess with Torrey Pines, the people around Tahoe typically know the area is under restrictions to protect the water clarity.

This leads to a question, has anyone from this board gotten suckered into doing this kind of pruning or removal? And if so, how did you avoid getting prosecuted? Seems like those in the biz would be held to a higher standard to know about the boundary and restrictions than JQ public.

 

[treemandan]

This leads to a question, has anyone from this board gotten suckered into doing this kind of pruning or removal? And if so, how did you avoid getting prosecuted? Seems like those in the biz would be held to a higher standard to know about the boundary and restrictions than JQ public.

That would not be funny but if you sell tree work and get into something like that I guess your at fault. I think if the homeowner tells you its their property and its not you might make out ok ( probably not get paid). What kind of tree co would not know if the trees are protected? I know the answer but ... I hope the answer to your question is NO.
I have been getting lazy, I sold a job that the only contact I had with the customer was emails, if the check wasn't taped to the door when we got there we were rolling.

 

[treemandan]

Most of these hosers know where their property lines are and are the first people to scream bloody murder if the line is crossed by someone else.
.

You make a good point. So this lady hired a tree co and they didn't know what they were getting into?

 

[TimberMcPherson]

I was offered 3k for a "night job" on a 100+ foot pine on council land. No clean up, no climbing, just scarf it into a gully, half hour work max, no chance of getting caught. Would have been an impressive fell to, just had to wait for the right wind direction on a stormy night. Did I think about it? Sure, im an insomniac and think about all sorts of crap. Would I have done it? Not in a million years, my soul is worth more than that.

 

[OTG BOSTON]

Any one that has the money to cut down trees for a better view of a lake will have the $$ to pay a lawyer to say she did not know better and is very sorry. She will probably gladly plant some new trees to replace the ones that were cut down. Did someone say it was better to ask forgiveness than permission?

well put. The few times I have actually been able to get into court on cases like this it ended in replacement trees........

 

[BarkingMad]

About 12 or 15 years ago a guy whose property backed on the Potomac River portions of the National Park hired a yahoo to cut brush and congesting trees on his property (he said). The contractor picked up a laborer guy on the way to the job, and left him alone. The laborer cut trees well into the Park property. The homeowner thought he could bulls*t his way out of trouble, and made the mistake of bringing lawyers into the discussion. The NPS crucified him - he spent YEARS in jail and paid major $$$. He ended up paying for every stem of every whip sapling.
I contracted to do work for him years later, and wouldn't go near it until I'd had both NPS and County guys visit and give me their blessing. Oy!

 

[pbtree]

Hang her high!

 

[corndogg]

There was a developer here on the west side of Minneapolis who hired a tree service to come in on a Saturday and whack a bunch of trees (mostly boxelder)near a new condo site. Turns out they were supposedly on wetlands which is a big no no around here. It was in the paper and was a big deal for a while. I heard he ended up in court and had to pay 30,000 or so. But I also heard it really improved the view to a lake and helped sell condos so it was probably worth it for the developer! Never heard who the tree service was or if they got into trouble.

 

[Themadd1]

This happens all the time around here but not on public lands. Usually it is a neighbor that wants us to cut off some limbs or a neighbor's tree/s removed.

I have had many circumstances where the customer gets our neighbor permission form to even use their property and the next thing you know they have someone else do the job because they dont care about liability.

I have seen some really bad neighbor issues when doing non-profit community mediation and some of those have been about trees as well..

People know their property lines in small spaces not so much in large rural type settings.

I wont touch a tree without the owners permission, including municipalities.

 

[capetrees]

Friend of mine owns a home and it on a small lot and had tall pines that obscure the house from the neighbors, great privacy. The house was up for sale when he got a call from his RE agent. I say had because one of the neighbors, a seasonal owner, cleared some trees in his yard for a view of the ocean and when he was finidshed, realized my buddies trees were still blocking the view. He told the company doing the job to top the trees and they did. Later, the neighbor claimed he didn't know they were on someone elses lot (BS) and the tree guy claimed he didn't know either(BS). How bad can it be when you actually have to stand on my friends second floor deck and cut one of the tops off for the view????? As a result of the topping, my buddy has 14 pine totem poles in his back yard. In the end, it's all in court and the neighbor will be buying my friends house as a result. Now that's a HACK! :angry2:

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

One of my clients took the homeowners word as to lotline and permission. He cleared out a bunch of invasives raised some volunteers, making the area look better per his customers whishes.

Turned out he encroached by 20 ft or so along aorun 150 ft of property line.

He was sued for $35k and ended up on the hook for $12k

No remediation was done to the property.

 

[Mitchell]

around hear anyways

If the HO points out trees to you to cut and swears they are on his property, it is still not good enouph, the sawyer is legally on the hook for half. A retired coastal faller mate did some $100 falling for a "friend of a friend." The HO marked trees [he had been fighting over for years] on his [vacationing] nieghbours yard and said they were his. He ended up having to sell his pickup to pay the 10 000 or so bill.

The court savy HO claimed he clearly marked the tress not to be cut! It was a set up from the start. It was the fallers word against the deviants and the "HO" did not pay a scent. My mate was going to drop a tree on his house but was talked out of it as ultimatly the SOB new the courts and he would just end up in jail.

One a side note, He found out later that the guy would pull all sorts of stunts like getting new hardwood, or driveway paved and then once its down say "its no good I'm not paying." Once something is "screwed" down it belongs to the house and the contractor has to sue. He will cross the wrong guy some day...

 

[BC WetCoast]

If the HO points out trees to you to cut and swears they are on his property, it is still not good enouph, the sawyer is legally on the hook for half. A retired coastal faller mate did some $100 falling for a "friend of a friend." The HO marked trees [he had been fighting over for years] on his [vacationing] nieghbours yard and said they were his. He ended up having to sell his pickup to pay the 10 000 or so bill.

The court savy HO claimed he clearly marked the tress not to be cut! It was a set up from the start. It was the fallers word against the deviants and the "HO" did not pay a scent. My mate was going to drop a tree on his house but was talked out of it as ultimatly the SOB new the courts and he would just end up in jail.

One a side note, He found out later that the guy would pull all sorts of stunts like getting new hardwood, or driveway paved and then once its down say "its no good I'm not paying." Once something is "screwed" down it belongs to the house and the contractor has to sue. He will cross the wrong guy some day...

I think we found us a new chip dumping site.

 

[treeseer]

OTG, no one in Boston has had to pay enough to make an impact?

Do the replacement trees ever get installed and grow?

Why don't these HO's negotiate a vista prune, so they get their views and the owners keep their trees?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I think we found us a new chip dumping site.

I know of a "dumpsite" like that. Crap firewood with a bogus bill.

They also get their mailbox run over on a regular basis

Someone, on this site, a number of years ago, posted a nationwide add on a WATTS line for free firewood. Paid or it with a money order so it was untraceable....