Spikes and cocos nucifera

[coconut girl:)]

I am a certified arborist that was taught that it was safe to spike coconut trees because of the corky outer layer and vascular bundles that make this possible without hurting the tree. I have lived in Hawaii for 15 years and have seen 50-70 year old coconut trees thrive rgardless of using spikes to ascend. Asthetically speaking the trees look better without the spike holes but the platforms and spikeless bands are much more time consuming and not practical when you have hundreds on a golf course many not accesible by boom trucks do to preservation of the green or terrain etc... I believe cocos nucifera is the only tree you can safely spike thats not a removal. Any input on this would be greatly appreciated- I'm open to all theories. Aloha

 

[David (saltas)]

Spikes are ok on any palm tree

Arecaceae or Palmae palm tree family to normal people are all moncots

These have no cambium layer so you can not ring bark a monocot like you can all of the dicots.

Monocots do not do codit compartmentalization like dicots do.

Spiking up any of the more than 2500 species of palms will do cosmetic damage only

Syagrus romanzoffiana (Queen Palm or Cocos Palm) is a weed IMHO

 

[jefflovstrom]

I don't care how many coco's you got. That does not justify spiking them. We don't. Maybe learn to bid it right.
Jeff

 

[Koa Man]

Jeff,
If you were to bid a golf course job to trim the cocos spikeless you would not win the bid. They are looking for the cheapest bidder, not one that is going to keep the palm trunks pretty. Besides, cocos grow wild here. Even the hotels that do not want their cocos spiked, are still looking to have them done as cheaply as possible. I have a big advantage since I am the only tree service in the entire state of Hawaii with a spider lift. I go where others cannot. It is impossible to underbid me on spikeless trims if I can get my lift in there and a bucket truck cannot, because I can easily do five times what a climber on a platform or rings can do. Much more if there are lights mounted on the trunks. At two of the hotels, more than 50% of the palms have lights or other junk attached to their trunk, lights, signs, speakers, cables etc.

 

[ROPECLIMBER]

here in SA we singleline through the crown, ancor hitched back to the trunk, you have to be carful of the terminal bud though, Monocots do not campartmetalize wounds, this means the gaff punches from 20 years ago are still there, grass with 20-30 years of holes punched in it, think of a drinking straw with a bunch of holes in it above water line, it may not show the decline right away but after the three year drought we have had you can see the decline in the palms that have mecanical damage verses the ones that were properly pruned, these were all topics on my ISA CA exam the reason extra care to the terminal bud is monocots dont have adventages or sub-dominant buds, Terminal it is the end, and all water soluable nutrients must reach it through transperasional pull, IE straw example
Paul

PS no trees heal but Dycots try to seal the forth and final wall of defense,
What about the Wraptor anybody tryed that on palms

 

[David (saltas)]

here in SA we singleline through the crown, ancor hitched back to the trunk, you have to be carful of the terminal bud though, Monocots do not campartmetalize wounds, this means the gaff punches from 20 years ago are still there, grass with 20-30 years of holes punched in it, think of a drinking straw with a bunch of holes in it above water line, it may not show the decline right away but after the three year drought we have had you can see the decline in the palms that have mecanical damage verses the ones that were properly pruned, these were all topics on my ISA CA exam the reason extra care to the terminal bud is monocots dont have adventages or sub-dominant buds, Terminal it is the end, and all water soluable nutrients must reach it through transperasional pull, IE straw example
Paul

PS no trees heal but Dycots try to seal the forth and final wall of defense,
What about the Wraptor anybody tryed that on palms

I agree with the content of your post

Question how many straws does a palm have ? 100's of Millions
How many straws are going to be damaged by spiking up and down one thousand at most

It is my experience that palms are harder to harm than Trees as they are using all of the trunk and not just the little layers either side of the thin green band

Our annual rain fall is 1200mm

Clearly your situation / experience is different

I Think you and jeff are being nicer to them.

On the bud thing I would agree 100% but I will post a picture from a rare palm in poor health in a botanical garden that has what looks like a new growth from a dormant bud after the original trunk was butchered by insect attack

 

[jefflovstrom]

Jeff,
If you were to bid a golf course job to trim the cocos spikeless you would not win the bid.

When the bid spec's specifically say no spikes, everyone bids it that way. We do it all the time.
Jeff

 

[ROPECLIMBER]

ANSI A300-1
5.2.4.3 Climbing spurs should not be used
when climbing trees, except as specified elsewhere
in this standard. Climbing spur use is
permissible on tree removals and in emergencies
such as aerial rescue.
5.2.4.4 Equipment and work practices that
damage bark, cambium, live palm tissue, or
any combination of these, should be avoided

Thought this said Shall, when I copied and pasted it

 

[tree md]

Not that I know a whole hell of a lot about Palms but I believe that technically, they are not even trees.

 

[ROPECLIMBER]

they are in the plant kingdom, closer to grass than tree,but ansi mentions Palm tissue seperate

5.2.4.4 Equipment and work practices that
damage bark, cambium, live palm tissue, or
any combination of these, should be avoided

and this was off a pdf of '94 A300-1 I am sure it says Shall in the 08

Paul

 

[Koa Man]

Ok Jeff, if the bid says no spikes, then everybody is on a level playing field and I win, LOL.
But, since she asked about spiking, then the bid is not saying no spikes. All the companies here
that work golf courses use buckets where possible and spike the rest.

ROPECLIMBER,
How were you planning to set your climbing line in the coconut palm? Pulling a climbing line
thorough the head of a coconut by tying to a throw ball line will not work. Even something as
tiny as a figure 8 knot in a throw ball line with the weight of a climbing line on the other end will get stuck.
As I have stated before, I will bet anyone any amount of money that they will not be able to pull a climbing
line attached to a throw ball line through the head of a coconut palm. I give them one hour to make one
successful attempt. If I bring in all the other tree contractors here in on the bet, I am sure we can come up
with at least $250K or more if someone is willing to bet that much. Many have tried, myself included, and
I have not seen one successful. If you cannot get a rope up there, the Wraptor will not work. Also keep in
mind that a lot of the coconut palms here are in the 60-70 ft. of trunk range, many taller than that.

I have not seen any damage to coconut palms due to spiking, other than appearance.
See photos in this thread: http://www.arboristsite.com/commercial-tree-care-climbing/149861.htm

 

[beastmaster]

I have spiked many a palm in my day. I cringe when I think back to all the king and queens I've spiked. But we have Our weed palm out here in So Calif. too. Its the Washatonia family. I have spent an hour before trying to big shot a line up one on a windy day. Also if one is over grown with frowns all the way to the ground, with no bucket truck access then what?
I would never again spike a king or queen. They have a hard outer shell.Its unsitely and may give pathogens a place to get a foothold when spiked .. But 90% of kings and queens can be reached with a latter.
I have solved the problem of spiking washatonia's by not doing them any more for the most part. But their not a large part of the work I am offered anymore. In the tropics coco's are probably a good percentage of your income. It easy for others to say its wrong to spike them when their livelihoods isn't connected to them, the proverbial rock and a hard place.
If I had a steady contract to do a lot of palms that couldn't be reached with a boom or latter, I think I would maybe place a semi permanent system in the palm, using spectra or similar decay resistant rope or strap with a ring attached and fishing line run throu it that could be used to pull a SRT line. The fishing line could be left 20 ft above the ground tell next time needed. It would only cost a few dollar a palm. Just an idea

 

[beastmaster]

I have also thought of making a serrated half moon device worn on the lower leg like spikes but would go horizonical and face downward at a slight angle so they dug in, but not puncture the palm. I also saw a guy climb a palm with a strap tied between his feet. He moved pretty fast also. Necessity is the mother of invention. If everyone decided not to spike em, I believe someone would come up with a new method. But as long as spiking is the status quo, there is no motivation for innovation.
Harmful or not,spiked palm are ugly.

 

[ROPECLIMBER]

Koa, I have never been in a Cocos nucifera, the California fan palm Washingtonia filifara that beastmaster talks about and have never rope climbed them either they are mostly here as ornimentals in stripcenters I did cut one down and would see how the thorns on the underside would be a pain, most of the fan palms get froze before they are very old any way, the older palms that havent frozen over the years are the Sabal mexicanas ,or Texas sabal palm they have a smooth frond and are easier to ret a rope into, I dont rush across town to bid any palm and was mainly rattiling off what I have been taught and learning, the spiked photo is ugly and less healthy looking but I am glad palms don't make or break me, all the un pruned old Sabal are full of roof rats too,
back in 03,me and my now ex-wife went to the Bahammas for hoonymoon and the helpers there went up the palms bare foot no PPE and no lanyard with a machette in thier mouth

 

[tree md]

OK, I vote we need pics in this thread...

 

[Koa Man]

OK, you wanted photos so here is how I do palms spikeless.
One photo shows shows me having to climb out of the bucket and go up
another 10 ft. to trim this coco. This is with my 23GT directly under the palm
and extended to its full height. That palm is one of, but not the tallest coco at
this hotel. There are about 20 cocos that require me to climb out of the bucket
because the 23GT is too short. A 100 ft. spider lift would be nice and I was thinking
of selling my 23GT to get one, but this hotel told me hang on for one more year
and all the old tall palms are coming down to be replaced by shorter ones, 20-40 ft.
in height. That's good because I really like my 23GT.

 

[Koa Man]

When a palm is not lift accessible, we use one of our three platforms in combination with strap on tree ladders to go over obstacles such as lights and other junk that people love to attach to palms.

 

[tree md]

I've got three climbing platforms like that as well as ladder sticks. That looks like a very viable option and excellent idea for palms.

Wish Coconut girl hadn't run off. Was hoping to see some pics of her work.

 

[Koa Man]

I found coconut girl. Here she is.
Coconut Girl - YouTube

 

[David (saltas)]

here in SA we singleline through the crown, ancor hitched back to the trunk, you have to be carful of the terminal bud though, Monocots do not campartmetalize wounds, this means the gaff punches from 20 years ago are still there, grass with 20-30 years of holes punched in it, think of a drinking straw with a bunch of holes in it above water line, it may not show the decline right away but after the three year drought we have had you can see the decline in the palms that have mecanical damage verses the ones that were properly pruned, these were all topics on my ISA CA exam the reason extra care to the terminal bud is monocots dont have adventages or sub-dominant buds, Terminal it is the end, and all water soluable nutrients must reach it through transperasional pull, IE straw example
Paul

PS no trees heal but Dycots try to seal the forth and final wall of defense,
What about the Wraptor anybody tryed that on palms

I promised pictures Hydriastele ramsayi (Gronophyllum ramsayi) - Northern Kentia Palm

This picture of the same palm taken three years ago
Hydriastele ramsayi (Gronophyllum ramsayi) - Northern Kentia Palm | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

same palm taken today

close up of multi trunking that occurred after the original trunk was attacked

What it should look like

This is not a multi trunking palm
Palms don't have branches
There is not supposed to be any undifferentiated plant material in the trunk only at the growing tip and the base where new roots grow

There is another palm same species that suffered similar insect attack and it has a very week trunk but it did not start budding in the middle of the trunk.


Anyway back to the excellent discussion about ways of not spiking up a palm