Spikes/gaffs

[ramanujan]

my 2cents... where i work there's plenty of conifer (upright spar type) removals and to do the removals w/o gaffs is beyond impratical its simply ludicrous. and back to footlocking being faster than gaffing... a while ago my boss and a bunch of us were over at a guys place in the country, we had a line set up the tree and fastest footlocker vs fastest gaffer and the gaffer won.

the fellow footlocking is a very good climber, used to compete a lot, this year he was judging at the itcc.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

But I will still get to the top faster by FL then by gaff. And I can work out a tossing channel on my way up better on a spreading tree.

I can get up any tree w/o gaffs and have not found a limb yet I need gaffs on to get to a tip.

I don't know how to simmy either (Shinny??)

 

[ramanujan]

heh... you'd have to be a big boy to shinny up these trees.

honest question here John, how would you go about getting up the following tree (a friend of mine took the dead top out of it a while ago. with gaffs.)

- Douglas-Fir DBH 5' height approx. 165'

- located in ravine, thick understory growth to about 50'

- epicormic growth obscuring lower limbs to 4 or 5' out from the bole

- first limb(s) at about 85' (but obscured.)

 

[Acer]

I've got to agree with those that think spikes are essential part of a climber's kit. I'd say most of my removals need spikes at some stage, normally to block down the stick at the end of the job. I don't see how a lot of these jobs could be done safely without them. OK, you could leave stubs to stand on, but a lot of the time the space between stubs would mean dropping out large chunks..normally not acceptable, most stuff has to be dropped in handleable chunks in an area that's not going to cause any damage. Also, I find the stubs get in the way, catching on dropped branches and tangling with ropes. Of course, my circumstances may be different to others, but it's typical urban tree removal.

I used to hate using spikes. My second experience of them was gaffing out on a 60' sweet chestnut, which left me hanging by my lanyard against the trunk. I hated using them until I got my Bashlins. I find these comfortable, they've never gaffed out (touchwood)..they've even got letters stamped in the shank to tell me which climber goes on which foot!! They were expensive, but I look after them and keep them pin sharp. It's another example of the right gear, well looked after, helps you do more, faster and safer. I still don't like being on the top of a pole at the 6" diameter point, especially on thin barked species like sycamore and beech..little bit too wobbly. As for getting in the way, that can be a problem, but not too much of one. Mind you, spikes sold in the UK come with pole gaffs, just over 1" long. I've never seen anyone using the longer treegaffs.

 

[monkeypuzzle]

Got to have my gaffs.I used pole gaffs for ten years before i bought Bashlins.I DO NOT see how guys climb with the offset rooster spur looking things,they are VERY uncomfy.I will admit I am in the REMOVAL bizz mostly,but can climb any style,footlock,SRT what have you.But,I work for my self,and don't waste time playing with crap that has no use to me while I am working.I think most guys are just scared of spikes,or they just don't have the body control to use them corectly.From my exp the big guys have the most trouble with spikes and climbing in general,and tend to be a bit slower. Don't get me wrong,I love to play around in large trees with just me and the rope,giving the tree a nice crown cleaning,but I like the in and out removal jobs best. Productive without spikes,not around here,there is just NO way.What are you going to with a 13'' DBH 75' pine that leans over a house.LOOK at I say.

I have never stuck my leg with my gaffs or have I ever sharpend them,ever. good day!

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i've come to not using spikes so much that they (that i once always wore) now get in my way as i have not maintained the skills of wearing them without thinking about it. They can get heavy though i favor bashlins w/velcro wraps. But they can also pierce lanyards, lines, slings etc. i have learned to float on the end of a tight line, kinda a diffrent strategy!

Even on a lot of removals, especially well scaffolded ones; i tend to fergit'em! But, for steep, clean verticals in 'real' removals that must be scaled, or blocking out (especially catching on the same spar); is where i see them as the most needed.

i figure there are a few spikers and FL'rs faster than me, but i try to make up fer'it on some of them curves; rigging out precise loads relentlessly at their maximum of controlled grace and capacity. These things i wouldn't have grown to understand or appreciate as deeply if i hadn't hung up the spikes, and learned to use and understand that lil'line more!

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

honest question here John, how would you go about getting up the following tree

Call Gerry Beranek.

That type of tree is out of my experiance. I'll stick to the 90 ft oaks and such.

If I were rec climbing i would bring Ox or Dan along and set the line via crossbow, then SRT my way up. The ask rog to take some pictures.

 

[treeclimber165]

In my experience, the guys who say that they don't like wearing gaffs on removals are not as fast as a gaff climber on removals.

Using what I've learned this year, I can ascend a tree faster and easier without gaffs than with. But when it comes to actually working a removal, I'm faster wearing gaffs.

 

[Frans]

tools/gaffs explained

I just gotta jump in here...
REAL climbers use the tools that work best for the situation at hand.
I have heard questions on this board that go like this:
What is the ideal flip line that workes best for all situations?
or:
I have heard some climbers dont like to use gaffs
The reality is you use what ever tools work best in the situation you find yourself. Whether that be spurs, cable core flips or ascenders. AND you switch tools in order to always use the best one.
FOR EXAMPLE:
Would you use a 020 to chunk down a 3' trunk? I have seen it done and it made me embarrased to be seen working with the guy.
The climber who insists on using a system that is inappropriate for the situation is usually a climber who is slow and dangerous to themselves and others.
Think of IRON JOHN remember the tale? A mighty strong man who worked on the railroad. He said he could dig a tunnel faster than any machine. AND HE COULD but it killed him.
Happy Holidays
Frans

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

As I said, I get the top out then have the gaffs sent up.

Most conifers I've removed in this area I can just pull over, so I cannot comment on them.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

The way I was taught: removals...spikes, anything other than removals...no spikes. I've gotten used to them. I use them all the time on removals.

 

[monkeypuzzle]

Pretty morning here in North Florida! Feels like Mtn. weather. Where are you non-spikers standing while in the tree,or how?????? I can picture how I would go about it,but seems I would spend a lot of time findind the right position.


Say your in a tall co-dom, tied in to A and working B off of the house,your lowering block is also in A. Limb B is 40 to 50 foot at 45 degrees. How do you cling to that?

 

[Ryan Willock]

on that type of thing unless there are a lot of limbs ya' gaff it!!! its not that i don't like to use gaffs but if there are a TON of climbable limbs then why use them??? i know things are differant in different areas but around here unless its a pine you can remove just about every thing without gaffs

 

[treeman82]

monkeypuzzle- why not just double crotch? Bring along a couple big slings if you really need them.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

there are allways places to stand, and if you use modern rigging methods with low friction, you can go real big with the wood.

 

[TREETX]

What is up with this, "how are you going to remove a blah, blah, blah with a codominant stem, over a tiger cage, in a windstorm, with one foot in a hammock,....blah, blah?"

They are great tools, just not for every removal. There comes a time that climbers use them because the lask other skills or techniques.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Hmmm, i think that there are a lot of times in removals that high overhead friction is the way to go. It reduces anchor load, and line that needs to be stretched.

Of course in blocking and catching under the load on the same spar, then friction'less' methods alow the running of the line to reduce total load.

But in either case, i beleive in pretitghtening the line to it's maximum, to remove play and force impact in the machine, for these are very important things in maximizing the works, and you can always allow more slack in the line after the machine of motion is started, but usually you cannot tighten the line more to adjust to the motion. So, in order to grasp more control and flexability, i seek to maximize pre-tightening, and when i can employ self tightening rigs, that use the mass and leverage of the load to tighten the line the last precious bit while the hinge feeds the load to the line gradually. Minimiing force like this, and then using the base force of the load to set the line,then progress into using all that to steer and float the load over larger, higher obstacles with less 'chess moves' and more clearance and grace(without deploying load lifting strategies) is what i continually chase.

 

[monkeypuzzle]

Whats up with this,"Darn,TREETX got a case of the smart a$$ today." but you admitted it a few post back so no problem. Hell,just call the crane guy.

 

[DDM]

I'll just climb right up that tree with my trusty Deer stand the one with the lunch box strapped underneath it.

 

[TREETX]

I stick with the attitude of use em when needed on removals. What I protest is a broadcast prescription that spikes are needed on every removal. If you need spikes to be efficient on EVERY removal, ..........there lies the problemo.

Getting over the Christmas shell shock - can we do it every other year?