Splicing eyes - from the Knot Question thread

[mikecross23]

Brian,

What kind of splice to you recommend for 16 strand double braid climbing rope?

-Mike-

 

[treeclimber165]

Neither Samson or New England have the arbo rope eye splice listed online.
Everyone uses basically the same splice for arbo rope, with the exception of the Fly. I can email you the instructions for Samson Blue Streak which is the identical splice as New England's but the instructions are easier to read.

I also have the New England instructions for Safety Blue and Hi-Vee but it's a 3+Mb file and practically identical to the Samson instructions.

 

[NickfromWI]

Splice Directions

These are the directions Brian speaks of:

http://www.samsonrope.com/pdf/BLUESTREAK SPLICING.pdf

This is the basic technique that most people use for New England Ropes Braided Safety Blue & Hi-Vee, Yale XTC, Samson BlueStreak, Buccaneer ArborBoss/Patriot, and the many other fine 16 strand climbing lines.

Bury deep and with long smooth tapers!

love
nick

 

[mikecross23]

Thanks Brian and Nick for the website link. I'm having trouble understanding the lingo.

#4... Tapering end of rope.
a. pull out marked strand pairs from braid. (don't cut)

b. tape end of cover tale & attach fid to tapered end of rope.

No comprende maaannnnnnn!

 

[treeclimber165]

Easier to show someone than explain it. Basically you want to pull out the marked strands from the end of the rope back to the mark, leaving the rest of the strands intact.
I had a hard time understanding a lot of the terminology too at first. I poured over the splicing sites and read ALL the different splicing instructions- trying to make the splice in my mind. I think I made a satisfactory eye splice in arbo rope on my third try, about 2 weeks after my first attempt.
Try not to get too frustrated with it. Go back to the New England site and read over the different splices so you get a better feel for the terminology. Lovey Nick might have some other splicing sites with illustrations also, or better advice.

 

[NickfromWI]

Splicing is fun....right?

Mike-

Regarding "a. pull out marked strand pairs from braid. (don't cut)"

The directions don't want you to cut the strands just yet. If you do, those evil things will begin to unravel. It is best to leave them, proceed with the rest of the splice, then when you are doing the bury, cut each of the pulled strands the moment before each one is to be sucked in to the hollow of the rope that you created by pulling out the core strands.

And for "b. tape end of cover tale & attach fid to tapered end of rope."

The rope you are splicing has 16 strands in it (I hope). You pull out ten of these strands to make the taper. The directions are telling you to tape/attach the taper to the fid so that you can push/pull the taper into the hollow of the rope. Some fids have special ways to attach the taper to the fid so that taping won't be necessary.

That should get you going a little bit. Let us know if you need some more advice.

love
nick

 

[mikecross23]

Thanks for the translations fellas! I'm sure I'll have more questions!

 

[treeclimber165]

What I've done after pulling the 10 strands is to tie them in pairs with a half hitch about an inch or two out from the rope. Then I cut off the excess past the knot. This gets a lot of extra crap out of my way while messing with the bury yet still keeps the strands from unravelling further.

 

[NickfromWI]

I dread the dread

Like 165, I get annoyed by having that mass of dreadlocks dangling from my work. I just cut all the pulled strands, leaving them about 8" long...enough that they won't back in and unravel. I do the same with the core strands...cut most of it off so I don't have to deal with it. But be careful...cut too much and you'll be in trouble when you try to finish the splice!

love
nick

 

[mikecross23]

Alright, I finished my first splice on the end of a 50' lenght of
hi-vee. Came out pretty good considering this was a spontaneous decision. Thanks Brian and Nick. I'm going to do it again 2 or 3 times before attempting on my life line.

I used a coat hanger for the fid, but that had a sharp edge that kept breaking fibers of the rope. I need to buy or find something that isn't sharp and jaged like the coat hanger.

Also I had trouble getting the pull strands to overlap with the core strands at about 24" up from the tip of the splice. I pulled some of the core strand out from where the fid was inserted in the rope allowing more room to milk the pull strands letting them overlap the core strands.

When I was pulling the first ten strands, I pulled them all the the same spot on the rope. The bury spot at the top of the tear drop shaped eye splice is messy b/c I cut the 10 pulled strands off all at the same time. That made a big wad that got stuck just before being completely buried.

I think I did pretty good for my first splice, but if anyone can relate to my imperfections, tell me how to over come them!

Thanks,
-Mike-

 

[treeclimber165]

Bend the end of your coat hanger over with a good pair of pliers, then tape the sharp end tightly to the side of the hanger so it doesn't snag when pulling back.

The 10 strands do not all get cut back to the same point. Re-read the directions carefully. when the strands are pulled, you should have 5 pair, each pair about an inch apart.
Something I tried on my last splice that made the bury easier- I taped each strand before cutting it, leaving about 1/8" of tape around the tip of the strand after cutting. Then I carefully tucked the cut strand inside the rope so it wouldn't snag when pulling it in on the bury. I got the idea from the final picture of the single braid eye splice (tuck) instructions on the New England site. The butt end of a 3/16" saw file works great as a poker.

Sounds good, Mike. Try it again tomorrow night when you are fresh, it should go easier next time.

 

[mikecross23]

I'll let ya'll know how it goes tomorrow. Thanks for the tips.

-Mike-

 

[mikecross23]

One more thing before I start tomorrow. What are ways you guys pull the core out of the rope w/ out damaging rope fibers. Brian you said to bend the end of the hanger over and wrap w/ tape. Is there a way to fish out the core w/ the hanger bent over and taped.

How do I neatly spread a hole in the rope to insert or remove core strands, pull strands, or the fid?

 

[treeclimber165]

I've been bunching up the cover by pulling out some of the core and then using the butt end of a chainsaw file to dig the core out. Nick or others may have a better method.

 

[NickfromWI]

Getting out those core strands

To get those core strands out without messing up the cover, you need a tool. The first one i used was a nail. I sanded (starting at 400 grit, then working to 800 grit) a smooth tip on the end of the nail. It was no longer sharp at at, and had no burrs that could snag the strands. Imagine if you had a wooden pencil, used it until it needed to be sharpened really bad..that's how dull it should be. You can use this to scoot the strands over and make an opening, then reach the nail in there and scoop the strands out.

If you wanna go all out (kinda) you can go buy a scratch awl at the hardware store (maybe 5 dollars) and sand it in the same way. Some say it's better if you sand it so there is a bit of a flattened tip, like a tiny screw driver, but i prefer a dull, smooth point.

Come to thing of it, you could probably sand a broken off piece clothes hanger to make the same thing. Just make sure it's smooth!

Also, for what it's worth, this is a chart that shows how many core strands there are in each of these ropes:

NER BSB: 9, plus marker thread and label ribbon
Yale XTC: 12
Buccaneer ArborBoss: 6
Samson BlueStreak: Never spliced it....anyone know?

Mike- for your coat hanger fid, are you using a hanger folded completely in half, or do you use a single piece with a loop formed in the eye. With the whole thing folded in half, there should be no sharp edges to catch on anything.


Have fun

 

[treeclimber165]

After reading Nick's ideas, I like the used chainsaw file idea better. I have 3 sizes readily available all the time, and they require no expense or travel. They are already smoothly rounded off so I don't need to file off any burrs. Easier to hold than a nail I think. Nice taper and strong enough to dig without bending the tool.

About the only thing I can think of that might work better is a knitting needle. Ask an aunt or grandmother for a spare and try it.

 

[monkeypuzzle]

Man, would hate to show you guys my first splice after reading the info on splicing. I attempted to splice some BlueStreak and failed miserable.

Nick, I found 7 core strands and two white plastic(?) strips of ribbon with Samson Rope Technologies 2001 writen on them. I can't say these number are correct since I read your post only this a.m., but I could have lost a few strands,I paid no attention to that detail last night.

 

[mikecross23]

I'm getting a little ahead of myself, but where do I get, and what to I need to lock stitch splices? I figure by the time an order could get to me, I hope to be able to make trustworthy splices and will want to finish them off by lock stitching. Is that necessary, or is it just good practice, kind of like the two is one, one is none theory. I also was going to order some whipping twine and the sail makers needle to whip the splice. Is that acceptable instead of lock stitching or do I use that to lock stitch and then whip w/ the same twine?

Lil' more help fella's would be much appreciated!

Monkeypuzzle we should get together and have a splicing session. To heads and four hands are better than one or two.

 

[mikecross23]

I was also going to order the red plastic rope thimble from the Sherrill catalog to close the eye splice over. Do those things help protect the rope or do they just get in the way more than anything?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I've used core and sheath yarn for locking and whipping splices. It is cheaper and you have it there to use when practicing.

Whipping yarn is eaiser to use because it has a stiffer lay, but you gotta buy it.