Splicing eyes - from the Knot Question thread

[mikecross23]

Third night, third splice, thrice as nice! I think I've got it. The last one is almost perfect. Fits tight around the biner like a glove and buryied deep into the core. The overlap is almost just as nice, but there is a slight bump. Hardly noticeable though. I think the next one is for real! Just waitin' on the lock stitching thread and needle. Too bad I ordered the toss splicing video, but at least I'll learn more splices from it.

-Mike-

 

[geofore]

Toss video

I got a couple of guys here that would put that video to use if you don't want it send it to me for my birthday. Bought two feet of shrink tube at the electric supply shop today, ouch! $7 a foot and they only had red and black. The 1" diameter tube will shrink down tight on a pencil so there is no problem slipping it over the rope. The shrink tube works at 250F and the rope melts at 350F-450F but be careful with the torch if your not useing hair dryer to skrink it. The shrink tube makes it look like a nice finish on the splice. Don't forget to sew first because that shrink tube is a b* to get off once it is shrunk.

 

[mikecross23]

Geofore,
Thanks for the shrink wrap tips. I'll try to get some this evening.

 

[tophopper]

mike,
glad to here your progress!
In your final bury, the core to cover overlap, getting the perfect taper is tough. Remember alittle more material in the overlap is better than a little less.

 

[treeclimber165]

Geofore,
I'm not trying to make you feel bad but Skycraft Surplus had the 3/4" shrink wrap for $2.40 per 4'. I think the 1" was $3 per 4'. They had about 7 colors. They were out of clear but I found a couple 6" pieces in the box of short pieces they had. Holler if you need me to pick some up for you.

I used the 3/4" because it fit and I was concerned about the 1" not shrinking down far enough.

 

[mikecross23]

I just got off the phone with a local Radio Shack store. They carry 3/4" and 1" diameter pieces. They come 5" long and in packages of assorted colors. I didn't ask the price though, can't be too much.

I forgot to mention that I made my own version of a coat hanger fid that worked really well. I pushed the fid through the core at mark D and out mark B. Then I taped up as tight as I could w/ elecrical tape the cover strands that are to be attatched to the fid. Next I used a sharp coat hanger to poke a small hole directly through the taped end. Then, insert the end of fid through the hole and bend about an inch of the tip of the fid over and crimp it flat against itself (like a hook, hooking through the taped end). Now just add tape to cover the connection and make it extra secure and also cover the end of the coat hanger so it doesn't snag on the way out of the core. This worked really well for me and it allowed me to pull real hard on the fid w/ out the strands coming unattached.

-Mike-

 

[geofore]

shrink/electric

1 1/4" will shrink to 3/32"or number 8 wire, next question, does that 4' tube conduct electric or did you ask? It's important if you work around live wires, not everybody does but if you do, you have to know.
I could use shrink tube in lengths but I carry rolls of electric tape, I probably got ripped on the price but this is good stuff, shrinks tight and I can use it for my wiring project if there is any left over. Dual purpose. 1" or 1 1/4" lets you slip over the eye if you forget to put on before you splice. Prone to the occasional senior moment.

 

[mikecross23]

Mike Maas wrote this in another thread. . .

Originally posted by Mike Maas

On splicing:
The most important part of splicing, other than some proper training, is to test splices. Pretty don't mean chit.

So Maas, are U sayin' that I'm gonna die! ! ! I've got 6 "pretty" splices made up, none of them have been heavily loaded yet. What's a good way to test load them, other than the obviouse tie it to the truck method, I thought about using the masdam rope puller to put weight on it in a more controlled fashion. Does that even matter?

-Mike-

 

[mikecross23]

Re: shrink/electric

Originally posted by geofore
Does that 4' tube conduct electric or did you ask?

Geofore,
I stay away from electricity. I don't feel ed-jumakated enough around wires!

1" or 1 1/4" lets you slip over the eye if you forget to put on before you splice. Prone to the occasional senior moment.

Senior moment, shoot, I'm young and I forgot too put the shrink wrap on first last night. It stretched just enough to slide over the eye though.

-Mike-

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Re: Mike Maas wrote this in another thread. . .

Originally posted by mikecross23
So Maas, are U sayin' that I'm gonna die! ! ! I've got 6 "pretty" splices made up, none of them have been heavily loaded yet. What's a good way to test load them, other than the obviouse tie it to the truck method, I thought about using the masdam rope puller to put weight on it in a more controlled fashion. Does that even matter?

-Mike-

To answer your first question, yes, I think you are going to die. I don't know when, but eventually...

It's called a MAASdam rope puller. It only pulls about 1000 lb.s, so that wouldn't tell you much. Rope manufactures have the expertese and will test them for you. The truck method would be better than nothing, in my amateur opinion.

I'm no expert, but would think the testing should mimic loads that you might see in the tree.

 

[mikecross23]

"To answer your first question, yes, I think you are going to die. I don't know when, but eventually..."

Thanks for the optimism!

"It's called a MAASdam rope puller. It only pulls about 1000 lb.s, so that wouldn't tell you much. I'm no expert, but would think the testing should mimic loads that you might see in the tree."

But I only weigh 170lbs, so in most every situation, my rear end won't load the rope/eye splice more than the dam MAAS rope puller could during testing. I will snatch, jerk, and pull the heck out of one with the truck just to see what kind of abuse it will take. I guess that will be my peice of mind allowing me to realize that my eye splices will not be the cause of my death.

See Ya!
-Mike-

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Mike, what loads do you put on a rope while working?

A splice is like a knot, how do you test your knots?

Not to say it would be a bad thing to have your splices tested by the manufacturer before you climb on them.

If one is splicing man rated eyes for other people, then it would be good CYA, also a cheap product liability insurance would be in order.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Mike,
If the heaviest load your rope will ever see is 1000 lbs, then why do ya think those saftey nuts want the rope to hold 5400 lbs?

I'v e been climbing for a long time, and over the years I've tested my gear to well over a 1000 lbs at least three times, that I can think of, off the top of my head.
Tree work exposes the climber to all kinds of risks, it's not just you hanging gently on on the end of your line.

The biggest load I put on a climbing rope was in my earlier days, climbing a dead tree with a cavity. I didn't like the look of the decayed spot, so I used a rock climbing trick and set an anchor just below it, and climbed up to top the tree. Well, the top broke out and took me for a ride. The whole top of a mature oak and myself fell about 20' before the line tightened up and stopped me and the top. Looking down, another 30' or so, the whole ground was covered with huge rocks. Had I hit the ground it would of killed me. I made a lot of mistakes that day, but at least I had rated equipment.
I don't make this stuff up. It happens and can happen to you. Doing the minumum, following saftey standards, might just save your life when you do something stupid, and you will, trust me.

 

[mikecross23]

Good perspective Maas, now can we please have one of those ever so creative illustrations you used to draw all the time.

How do you (and others) set the splice after it's been burried. I assume that I should set it before I lock stitch it. True?

I know that me alone pulling on the splice is not a lot of load, but it dang sure seems solid and the fact that there are 30 plus inches of cover pulled up into the core make me feel pretty confident.

 

[mikecross23]

I just tried lock stitching a splice. How in the heck do you get the needle through that tight weave and out the other side? I ordered the sail makers needle from Sherrill. The needle is a big 'ol hammer knocker and the rope just does not want to open up enough. Would a smaller needle from an arts and crafts store make things easier?

I watched part of Toss' splicing video and he says he doesn't see a real need for lock stitching other than it being good practice and cheap insurance.

Maybe he's right, but I sure would feel better doin' it!

-Mike-

 

[NickfromWI]

Lock Stitching...

Mike-
Some hints to make the lockstitching a bit easier.

2- Massage the throat to loosen the fibers before you begin.
1- Go down a few more inches before you start. Right where the cover strands are entering the cover, there is a ton of tension. Move down until you can get that needle through. I've seen some splices from Sherrill (on split tails) where the stitch was about a foot down the splice. I don't go that far because it doesn't look good to me and I'm not getting paid by the hour, so I can take the extra time to do it my way.
2- Where ever you decide to put that needle in, if it doesn't go easy, and you don't have a thimble or a palm, try this: Put the needle in the little bit you can..maybe just barely an eighth of an inch. Now hold the rope parallel to a firm surface (work bench) and push the rope onto the needle. With some work, it should go through.
3- THE BROCCOLI RUBBERBAND TRICK!!!! I love this. Next time you're at the grocery store, head to the produce department (which is usually the first thing you see when you go in). Pick up a bunch of broccoli. It is often bundled by a fat rubberband. Either buy that bunch of broccoli, or find some other way to obtain that rubber band (or one like it). Now, when you have a needle that is sticking out of the rope, but you can't get it all the way...don't use pliers...that will scratch up and ruin your nice needle. Instead, pinch the needle with that rubber band. You should be able to get the extra friction/gription necessary to pull that sucker outta there.
4- Thin needles go in and out easier
5- Don't wrap a whipping on so tight that you can't get the needle through....that is a sign that there is too much tension in the whipping...or that you are using a needle that is just too large.
6- Brion doesn't spend all day climbing on those lines. I will continue to lock stitch (using NICCS Method) no matter what he says.

Okay, see how that works for a while. Let us know if you have some more questions.

Now, regarding the prettiness of splices. It DOES mean a lot. A bad splice can be quickly spotted just by it's lack of prettiness. An abrupt taper, snagged strands here or there, twist in the eye, a bump or hourglass in a crossover taper....all these are signs of poor workpersonship. I've had some of my splices tested and I could tell, just by looking at them which would do poorly.

As JPS has already addressed. A splice is a knot. If someone asks me when was the last time I tested a knot, I can say..."Last time I climbed a tree."

Have fun, bury deep, long smooth tapers, inspect your splices often, and mostly, enjoy the non-bulkiness!

love
nick

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

The splices I worry about most are on ropes with parallel strand cores.
My point about being pretty is, just 'cus it's pretty doesn't mean is secure and strong.
Oh, and yes, destructively tested splices should be cut up and thrown away.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

The point of testing a splice, I think, is when you are just starting out. This is jsut to assure and insure that it is doen right.

Pretty does make it better, if the bury and taper are right, a pretty splice means it is done properly. Just like a well dressed knot.

As for whip and stitch, my understanding is that it is to keep it from creeping or milking out during all the loading cycles. This is the theory behind Cobra Cable. The splice slips a little as the tree grows in between the movement in wind loading.

 

[treeclimber165]

Of my first 5-6 splices on arbo rope, one was on a 20'-25' piece of Safety Blue (Don'tcha HATE when you nick a brand new rope with your chainsaw?). A buddy got his chevy pickup stuck in the sand and it was a perfect opportunity to test my splicing. I used that rope and loaded the splice (with a 51Kn steel rigging biner) to pull his truck out of the sand. The splice never budged. Now I trust my splices.

 

[NickfromWI]

Stitching

What JPS says about the purpose of stitching is correct. It's to keep the buries buried during all that loading and unloading. Even though you can lay two ropes side by side and whip them together is such a way that the strength of the whipping matches the strength of the rope, that is not the intention in the splices that tree folks use.

love
nick