spyder/bucket.v.climber

[ccooperabbs]

Just a few tit bits from me:

ROLLACOSTA to what "Best Practice" are you refrering when you say UK HSE are recommending that platofrms are used whenever possible? And don't worry it won't ever become law that all tree work must be done from platforms. Germany myth.

Jamie, climbing won't be outlawed by what will effect us most significantly this year is the introduction of the Working at Height Regulations.

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

Originally posted by ccooperabbs
Just a few tit bits from me:

ROLLACOSTA to what "Best Practice" are you refrering when you say UK HSE are recommending that platofrms are used whenever possible? And don't worry it won't ever become law that all tree work must be done from platforms. Germany myth.

Jamie, climbing won't be outlawed by what will effect us most significantly this year is the introduction of the Working at Height Regulations.

height restictions now thats a new one to me ...........???can you elaborate.............

 

[BigJohn]

I think buckets are great for removals if it isn't too much hassle getting the truck in there and it doesn't block the only path to the chipper. For pruning its not bad when your just going up to grab a few pieces of big dead. The bucket has its place but not to be relied on solely. I could easily get to the top of an average tree of 80 90 foot tie in point quicker than any bucket and how many buckets can even reach that? To say a bucket is quicker is for those who just can't climb do to fear or their bellies getting in the way.

 

[Dadatwins]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel

Unfortunately a climber needs several years of practice before he can be more efficient than a bucket operator. A bucket operator will return more dollars sooner, but there are still many trees that a bucket operator will never be able to handle.

You can flip this over to say that a person must have several years of climbing experience before they can be a good bucket operator. I think all can agree that bucket can save time and energy, especially if access permits. And if several trees within reach can be removed this is added bonus. Of course this depends on operator. Someone who has to cut and hold every 3' part of tree in bucket will never be as productive as climber. Someone who can cut and throw 20' pieces from the air and have them land butt end towards chipper in a pile will outperform several climbers in tree. Like anything else in this biz good operator makes all the difference.
Agree that exclusive bucket operator will never be able to handle some trees that are above reach but experienced climber who has rigging experience in a bucket should not have trouble.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I don't think it takes several years for either a bucket operator or a climber to get into the swing of things. If it does, maybe they shouldn't even be doing it.

The accumulation of years only adds to the aqquiring of experience, truly a good thing.

But all along, you should have the basic mechanics down pat.

 

[OutOnaLimb]

Buckest definately have their place in the industry. But with out a doupt they have their limitations. I would say that close to 75% of the trees that I climb here in Denver would not be accessable to a bucket truck. Almost all of the back yards are fenced in and the streets in the front are so ????ed narrow that you would have to close the whole block off to through traffic. I however did work for an old guy back home a few years ago that had been running a bucket since Christ was a corporal. With a three man ground crew we were scrambling to keep up him. He could manuver that thing as smooth as anyone I had ever seen. The only thing that sucked was the only time I got to climb was in situations where he couldnt get the truck into position. Which made me a glorified ISA certified ground man. I would much rather be climbing than picking up limbs that were falling out of the sky left and right. Not only that but even some of the taller bucket trucks only reach about 65ft. Around here we have lots of Cottonwoods and maples that are way taller than that. I do how ever miss catching a ride up into a tree and not foot locking all the way up there, especially on monday mornings when I drank to much beer that weekend.

Kenn

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by OutOnaLimb
... running a bucket since Christ was a corporal.

Thats funny!

 

[OutOnaLimb]

Seriously, I think this grumpy old fart was far side security for Moses's river crossing.

Sorry, a little Army humor there.

Not only that but I think he would ????? at the Pope for being Polish.

Kenn

 

[NeTree]

One other place buckets belong:

On removals too dangerous to climb... dead trees, trees that have split spars, etc.

We get those alot around here. I mean why have it removed when it dies, when you can wait until it's ready to fall on the house and make an emergency out of it, right?

 

[Lumberjack]

Originally posted by netree
One other place buckets belong:

On removals too dangerous to climb... dead trees, trees that have split spars, etc.

We get those alot around here. I mean why have it removed when it dies, when you can wait until it's ready to fall on the house and make an emergency out of it, right?

Yeah, I know what you mean. "Well the tree stopped leafing out 2 years ago, but we wanted to make sure it was dead, so we wouldnt loose our tree."


More money

 

[ccooperabbs]

ROLLACOSTA

For your information

WORK AT HEIGHT REGULATIONS 2004

Summary from recent HSE industry meeting

The aim of the meeting was to discuss issues arising from the European Directive 2001/45/EC and the UK legislation that will be used for its implementation. This will be called the Work At Height Regulations 2004. The meeting concentrated on Personal Fall Protection Systems; Interpretation of Schedule 5; Risk Assessment concerning twin and single rope use (including past experiences of using a ‘back- up' safety rope) and current industry guidance; and, the development of a strategy for responding to the Health and Safety Commission's Consultation Document.
The main issue was, and still is, the use of a safety back-up rope whilst tree climbing, and the provision of two anchor points in case one anchor point should fail. The group discussed current working methods, current industry guidance, current risk assessment systems, and the limitations of working with a back-up rope etc.
The Regulations will be similar in nature to recent legislation such as PUWER and LOLER. They will contain a framework in which all work at height will have to take place. Simply put, it will mean that, if possible, work shouldn't be done at height; otherwise working platforms and other collective safeguards should be used. If this isn't possible then personal fall protection systems such as rope access and work positioning can be used.
The Arboricultural Industry currently uses the Arboricultural Association/FASTCo Code of Practice A Guide to Good Climbing Practice and associated AFAG Safety Guides e.g. AFAG 401 Tree Climbing Operations . To support these, the Arboricultural Association provides a Risk Assessment package for commercial arboriculture, which has been recently updated. (Contact the Arboricultural Association for details of associated courses - Tel. 01794 368717)
Unfortunately, the Guide to Good Climbing Practice is now out of print. Bearing in mind that a revision of the guide is due in order to bring it up to date and to meet the Work at Height Regulations, the group decided to take this on board and produce a new Code of Practice for work positioning techniques etc. This revision is currently being undertaken.
In summary, if the arboricultural and forestry industries continue to work to ‘current best practice' and carry out appropriate risk assessments, they should be able to work within the regulations.
Schedule 5, Part 3 (3) of the new Regulations as currently written states: -
“The system may comprise a single rope where: -
• a risk assessment has demonstrated that use of a second line would entail higher risk to persons;
and (b) appropriate measures have been taken to ensure safety.”
Therefore, with some fine tuning the industries should be able to work within the regulations.

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

SUB THREAD. what height bucket is worth an investmant..i reckon 75 ft got to be about the right height........

 

[NeTree]

Bigger the better. Only in rare cases can a smaller bucket do what a larger one can't; for instance, when a bucket is really needed, but there's little room for longer booms to swing around.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I think for non-utility work 55 footers are perfect for treework. Maybe even a little shorter. Like Erik wrote, long booms can be a PITA.