Stale fuel

[PapaWhitebeard]

There are lots of bad things done with stale fuel.
Don't dump it out.
Don't spray weeds or driveway with it.
Don't use it for starting fires (very dangerous)
Do not use to wash parts. It still does not get rid of it.
Don't evaporate it in a garage connected to the house or with water heater in it.
Do not put it in a pan to evaporate on a day it could rain.
Do use it in an old pickup diluted with a full tank of gas.
Do put it in the sun in an old turkey pan or oil pan and let evaporate on sunny day. This is the EPA recommended way of getting rid of it if you cannot get a recycling center to take it.

Note: Ask your local boat repair shop who they give the stale gas to. You will have to pay a fee to dump in their tank.

1. Weeds/driveway- you think it doesn’t work or are you worried about runoff and water table contamination?

It kills weeds like nothing else. As for the pollution factor… I’m not saying dump barrels of toxic waste on your property but squiring half a gallon of bad premix on the weeds poking out of my brickwork is doing LESS pollution than sending it to one of those sites that ends up being a toxic waste dump. It all goes *somewhere* right? Even those toxic waste sites aren’t sealed off from the earth… they leak like crazy… find one that doesn’t… they all do eventually.

So as long as you’re not pouring it down a storm drain that leads to the ocean (here in San Francisco Bay Area lots of storm drains have stenciled on them by activists “no dumping please—leads to bay” with like a picture of fish or whale or whatever. And yes they’re right about that.

But from my driveway to any water table it’s gonna get filtered through loads and loads of earth before it reaches any water table so I feel like it’s doing less pollution than if it ended up at a super site waste facility.

2. Parts washing / evaporation — Oh it’s great for washing parts… like… it’s excellent… for it… but agreed stay away from open flames like I said… including pilot lights on water heaters!

On my small parts washer I just keep the lid open and let it slowly evaporate over time.

I have a big 40 gallon parts washer that’s heated and has high pressure pumps etc and I would NEVER put any gasoline in a heated or sealed parts washer. That’s like building a bomb…. Agreed

 

[PapaWhitebeard]

BTW flashpoint of diesel is well above >100 F so even though it’s frowned upon I’ve used it heated to 100 F in my parts washer before. If I did that with gasoline I’d be dead right now because the flashpoint of gasoline is so so so low it’s like negative degrees F… so… whatever you do with your bad gas, your gas cans, wherever you have gasoline stored… make sure it’s not in a sealed room. Make sure it’s not in your garage sitting next to a water heater or a furnace with a pilot light.

One of my best friends lost his entire shop from a gas can and flashpoint… so… it actually happens. Be careful gents

 

[Philbert]

I date my chainsaw fuel: after 60 days it gets mixed in with a full tank of no-lead in the car. Too many fuel problems to mess with it.

Really old gas, like in used chainsaws, like you describe, I can take to our county hazardous waste site for free, along with old paint, etc.

If I lived in a rural area, I might consider some of the other options for a small amount. But I know of some people horribly burned using auto gas as a cleaning solvent, starting fires, etc.

We get so complacent with it that we forget the hazards.

Philbert

 

[PapaWhitebeard]

I know of some people horribly burned using auto gas as a cleaning solvent, starting fires, etc.

Wr get so complacent with it that we forget the hazards.

Philbert

I can’t tell if you and fishdrivel are deliberately trying to call the folks who’ve posted in this thread foolish.

OP asked what folks do with their stale fuel. People answered OPs question.

But you admonishing a bunch of folks who regularly work with chainsaws and handle mixing fuel about the dangers of burning themselves or setting people on fire feels both obvious (like let’s warn folks not to shoot themselves in the head while we’re at it) and condescending… like these guys don’t know burning themselves and setting people on fire is a bad idea… (?!)

 

[muddy42]

There are lots of bad things done with stale fuel.
Don't dump it out.
Don't spray weeds or driveway with it.
Don't use it for starting fires (very dangerous)
Do not use to wash parts. It still does not get rid of it.
Don't evaporate it in a garage connected to the house or with water heater in it.
Do not put it in a pan to evaporate on a day it could rain.
Do use it in an old pickup diluted with a full tank of gas.
Do put it in the sun in an old turkey pan or oil pan and let evaporate on sunny day. This is the EPA recommended way of getting rid of it if you cannot get a recycling center to take it.

Note: Ask your local boat repair shop who they give the stale gas to. You will have to pay a fee to dump in their tank.

Killjoy! You can safely help light a fire with gas if you are careful. I mix it with heavier junk oils and let the fuel soak in to the wood for a while. I light it from a distance with a taper and ensure nothing flammable is close buy.

The worst thing is sloshing gas onto an already lit fire from a larger can - fire then back through the air and bad things happen. Never do this.

 

[sean donato]

The machine shop used to weld up quite a lot of fuel tanks, both gas and diesel. Procedure was more of less the same for both. Drain, flush, dry, purge with argon or C02 for an hour before and during welding. Can't remember the flow rates they used for the purge cycle.
Years ago, I had to do some work on a stand by diesel pump down at a fuel depot in jersey. Had to take a tank confinement class before I was allowed to work on the pump. Fumes are only flammable at a certain concentration, basically the same as any fuel air ratio. Flame front won't propagate if there's too much or little air. They were just as worried about breathing air as they were fire/ explosion hazzards. Was taken very seriously. Had quite the procedures laid out for any hot work being preformed.
As to getting rid of old fuel, do whatver you want with it. More fuel is spilled on our roadways and at gas stations a year then the need to worry about dumping a couple ounces on weeds or mixing it in with the truck.

 

[PapaWhitebeard]

.
As to getting rid of old fuel, do whatver you want with it. More fuel is spilled on our roadways and at gas stations a year then the need to worry about dumping a couple ounces on weeds or mixing it in with the truck.

+1

 

[PapaWhitebeard]

Yeah… purging is what it’s all about for fuel tanks… it’s pretty impressive. But when I took my first oxy acetylene torch class they were like “NEVER attempt to weld a gas tank… roll down the cuffs of your pants… (so they don’t catch burning bits of metal), wear gloves… the goggles/mssk… blah blah blah… oh and don’t store bottles in your shop unless it’s ventilated… ‘let’s talk about flashpoint’”

I’m sure you got the same speech sometime last century

 

[wildwes]

That’s how you do it… and even doing that I would have been in nail biter mode brazing with an open flame…. But I’ve seen some guys do amazing things with a torch and gas… things the engineers told us were impossible…

As for being banned by the EPA… they ban all the best stuff when I find NOS pre-ban EPA stuff (like old R22 air conditioning freon or whatnot I buy that stuff up every chance I get!)

It's really not dangerous at all if you drain the tank, and then fill it completely with water a time or two and drain that out. Once you have done that and removed all of the volatile stuff there is no more danger of explosion.

 

[wildwes]

Yeah… purging is what it’s all about for fuel tanks… it’s pretty impressive. But when I took my first oxy acetylene torch class they were like “NEVER attempt to weld a gas tank… roll down the cuffs of your pants… (so they don’t catch burning bits of metal), wear gloves… the goggles/mssk… blah blah blah… oh and don’t store bottles in your shop unless it’s ventilated… ‘let’s talk about flashpoint’”

I’m sure you got the same speech sometime last century

I teach high school welding classes, we go over all of that same stuff. I also make every kid take a big sniff of acetylene and propane so they know what they smell like in case there ever is a leak.

It's a fun time showing them a balloon full of acetylene being lit, then show them one of a neutral mixture of acetylene and oxygen being lit off. With the neutral mixture it is heard on the other side of the school, and the SRO officer is usually sent down to see what happened.

Speaking of fire hazards and acetylene, this is a fun video I like to show my students too:

 

[PapaWhitebeard]

Wildwes I must have way too much ADD of whatever to make it past that initial explosion in the video but let me guess it had oxy and acetylene bottles on it?

And I’m thinking about your balloon demo with students “that ought to wake them up”

 

[wildwes]

Wildwes I must have way too much ADD of whatever to make it past that initial explosion in the video but let me guess it had oxy and acetylene bottles on it?

And I’m thinking about your balloon demo with students “that ought to wake them up”

I'm not 100% sure if it had both or if it was just acetylene. Either way, it usually does a good job of planting a healthy respect for compressed fuel gasses in their minds

The straight acetylene balloons aren't so loud, but the ones with oxygen mixed in are horrendously loud. The acetylene makes a fireball with lots of black smoke, where the mixed gas just makes a quick flash. It's all great fun, as long as you aren't too close.
Another welding teacher at a nearby school fills a trashbag with acetylene for a similar demonstration

 

[PapaWhitebeard]

Fella yeah it’s funny I can still remember the demo my guy gave us like it was yesterday… “note the slow, smoky, dark flame of the acetylene…” then he’d add oxygen enough for a cutting torch wide open you know “see the difference”

I’m just glad people are still teaching that stuff. All the young folks I know want to go straight to the TIG and MIG welding before they learn the basics. Welding is just such a great skill to have. It teaches so so much. Well done, fella I’m glad you’re passing it on to the younger generation

 

[wildwes]

Fella yeah it’s funny I can still remember the demo my guy gave us like it was yesterday… “note the slow, smoky, dark flame of the acetylene…” then he’d add oxygen enough for a cutting torch wide open you know “see the difference”

I’m just glad people are still teaching that stuff. All the young folks I know want to go straight to the TIG and MIG welding before they learn the basics. Welding is just such a great skill to have. It teaches so so much. Well done, fella I’m glad you’re passing it on to the younger generation

Thanks for the kind words. I'm typing this now as we aren't in the shop today, my students are working on their OSHA 10hr certification, so I don't have much to work on at the moment

I don't do as much with gas welding as I would like, due to cost- I have roughly 120-175 students each year, and my budget is $4500. That has to buy EVERYTHING I need- steel, wire, gasses, parts, tools, safety gear, etc. Acetylene has gotten expensive, and even though oxygen is cheap, when I run oxypropane, I go through a LOT of oxygen, so it's still expensive. Likewise, I don't do much TIG with them because of cost of gas and tungstens. I have switched all of my MIG machines over to 100% CO2 to save money. Stick welding is still my bread and butter though, and that is the majority of what I do with them. Once they learn stick, I let them MIG a little. Older students get to play with a little TIG in their second level class.
We're blessed that Lincoln will sell consumables such as L-56 MIG wire and most generic stick electrodes for $150/lb to schools, with free freight on orders over $500. Without that our welding time would be much more limited.

Either way, that's the stuff I enjoy teaching

 

[PapaWhitebeard]

Thanks for the kind words. I'm typing this now as we aren't in the shop today, my students are working on their OSHA 10hr certification, so I don't have much to work on at the moment

I don't do as much with gas welding as I would like, due to cost- I have roughly 120-175 students each year, and my budget is $4500. That has to buy EVERYTHING I need- steel, wire, gasses, parts, tools, safety gear, etc. Acetylene has gotten expensive, and even though oxygen is cheap, when I run oxypropane, I go through a LOT of oxygen, so it's still expensive. Likewise, I don't do much TIG with them because of cost of gas and tungstens. I have switched all of my MIG machines over to 100% CO2 to save money. Stick welding is still my bread and butter though, and that is the majority of what I do with them. Once they learn stick, I let them MIG a little. Older students get to play with a little TIG in their second level class.
We're blessed that Lincoln will sell consumables such as L-56 MIG wire and most generic stick electrodes for $150/lb to schools, with free freight on orders over $500. Without that our welding time would be much more limited.

Either way, that's the stuff I enjoy teaching

Yay for Lincoln’s brand marketing loyalty plots disguised as student support! (JK I appreciate what they’re doing for sure)

And woot! for all you folks who have the patience to deal with students!!! (Applause)

I know we were all young once… I was a sttaight up know-nothing dope before various mentors, apprenticeships and guys (and some gals) who took the time to train me made me a know-some-things dope

But seriously… hats off to all the good teachers out there…

 

[wildwes]

Yay for Lincoln’s brand marketing loyalty plots disguised as student support! (JK I appreciate what they’re doing for sure)

And woot! for all you folks who have the patience to deal with students!!! (Applause)

I know we were all young once… I was a sttaight up know-nothing dope before various mentors, apprenticeships and guys (and some gals) who took the time to train me made me a know-some-things dope

But seriously… hats off to all the good teachers out there…

Oh, I am absolutely sure they are doing it as a way of trying to increase brand loyalty, and as a way of advertising their brand. I appreciate what it does for our bottom line though. My budget works out to about $30 per student, per year.

That said, we mostly run Miller welders in the school shop, other than a couple of OLD Lincoln's that I dearly love, and the odd L-tec, hobart, etc.
On the newer machines I like the user interface and controls on the Millers better than the Lincolns.

I don't know how good of a teacher I am, but it's a lot of fun to see them learn, when they are actually learning.

 

[PapaWhitebeard]

Brand loyalty is real. Those Madison Avenue folks are plotting right now this very second how to get middle school children (they call them ‘tweens’) to affiliate with a brand.

Apparently the average consumer who buys brand whatever in his/her youth will keep on buying it… forever… (on average, of course). Inertia is a powerful force.

I’m totally guilty of brand loyalty too—but generally when I think it’s deserved.

That said… free is free and whether I’m a teacher or a professional whatever if somebody wants to give me free stuff I’ll run it as long as it isn’t like… so bad in the quality department that it’s dangerous… but yeah… free is a really good price :wink

And like you I appreciate the support those companies give regardless of their motives. Really. I was just poking fun at it. Being silly (shrug)

Coffee break over… time to get back to work.

 

[Breckinridge Elkins]

But I know of some people horribly burned using auto gas as a cleaning solvent, starting fires, etc.

Dad had a good friend who was a mechanic. He happened to come over one day when I was cleaning a dirtbike chain with gasoline. He chewed me out royally. I really bummed because I looked up to this guy. Dad told me later he had third degree burns all over one arm from cleaning parts with gas.

Should buff out.

 

[DeadDruid]

I can’t tell if you and fishdrivel are deliberately trying to call the folks who’ve posted in this thread foolish.

OP asked what folks do with their stale fuel. People answered OPs question.

But you admonishing a bunch of folks who regularly work with chainsaws and handle mixing fuel about the dangers of burning themselves or setting people on fire feels both obvious (like let’s warn folks not to shoot themselves in the head while we’re at it) and condescending… like these guys don’t know burning themselves and setting people on fire is a bad idea… (?!)

Yup, and this OP is very happy with the answers. I appreciate the time that people have taken to share their knowledge. I'm new to the world of gasoline/petrol powered tools, and without a local mentor it can be hard to find the right way forward.

Mark

 

[Philbert]

I can’t tell if you and fishdrivel are deliberately trying to call the folks who’ve posted in this thread foolish.

OP asked what folks do with their stale fuel. People answered OPs question.

But you admonishing a bunch of folks who regularly work with chainsaws and handle mixing fuel about the dangers of burning themselves or setting people on fire feels both obvious (like let’s warn folks not to shoot themselves in the head while we’re at it) and condescending… like these guys don’t know burning themselves and setting people on fire is a bad idea… (?!)

I said exactly what I mean. I know of, and have met, some individuals horribly burned after becoming complacent with gasoline.

Philbert