BewtifulTreeMan
ArboristSite Operative
Lets hear all about it Derek! I remember the picture you posted of a stump with step cuts, and I still can't imagine why you would want to do this. I'm looking forward to your explanation.
step cutting
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Derek
ArboristSite Guru
lets start then...
Sure but if your trolling for trouble, dont even think about replying.
For the benifit of the GENUINE newbies, (dont care for the term , myself. ) I will try to share some of my experinces working the construction side of powerline work..330Kva thats 330,000 volts
I will try to get a copy of a photo, showing what happens to a tree if it hits the line..(the ones they show us at courses)
It explodes, anything in it is dust or vapour, and you must remember to "HOP' away from the sean, not run..This would cause sevaer burns to your body (if you lived through the strike to the earth) [if you lift only one leg, it will arch between them]
There will be nothing to get squashed in a ill fitting harness to say the least..
I was responsiable for the lives 0f 12 men, to a point, not just me that gets fried, lots on the ground could be very badly injured if I stuff up!!..
I enforced MY OWN rules to the letter, If your 99.9% sure, you can miss the line, climb it anyway. or at least climb it and put a rope on it..I called the shots on who climbed what, took it upon my self to do the seriously dangerious work ( there are levels)
we get a lot of double and tripple "bark involved" type trees, not one tree but 2 ,up to 9 trees all growing as one, they "merged together" (the real arbos have much better terms)...
The mass of tree that it now is, takes a bit to get down when its close to the line , lets start slowley..
Doubles, imagin two joined trees both leading away from eachother, the tree cant be taken at right angles to the line..
I cant drop the whole tree in one go, so its a mater of basicly cutting it so you can drop it , STILL all at once but in all different dirrections...
Hard to follow, mabey a pic will help, (shame I can't embed it here)
Besides I allready lost the first half of this all ready (went to the chat room) ( thanks Silver)
Ill post it in bits this time..
Sure but if your trolling for trouble, dont even think about replying.
For the benifit of the GENUINE newbies, (dont care for the term , myself. ) I will try to share some of my experinces working the construction side of powerline work..330Kva thats 330,000 volts
I will try to get a copy of a photo, showing what happens to a tree if it hits the line..(the ones they show us at courses)
It explodes, anything in it is dust or vapour, and you must remember to "HOP' away from the sean, not run..This would cause sevaer burns to your body (if you lived through the strike to the earth) [if you lift only one leg, it will arch between them]
There will be nothing to get squashed in a ill fitting harness to say the least..
I was responsiable for the lives 0f 12 men, to a point, not just me that gets fried, lots on the ground could be very badly injured if I stuff up!!..
I enforced MY OWN rules to the letter, If your 99.9% sure, you can miss the line, climb it anyway. or at least climb it and put a rope on it..I called the shots on who climbed what, took it upon my self to do the seriously dangerious work ( there are levels)
we get a lot of double and tripple "bark involved" type trees, not one tree but 2 ,up to 9 trees all growing as one, they "merged together" (the real arbos have much better terms)...
The mass of tree that it now is, takes a bit to get down when its close to the line , lets start slowley..
Doubles, imagin two joined trees both leading away from eachother, the tree cant be taken at right angles to the line..
I cant drop the whole tree in one go, so its a mater of basicly cutting it so you can drop it , STILL all at once but in all different dirrections...
Hard to follow, mabey a pic will help, (shame I can't embed it here)
Besides I allready lost the first half of this all ready (went to the chat room) ( thanks Silver)
Ill post it in bits this time..
Derek
ArboristSite Guru
now the pic, woulden't go through before?
Derek
ArboristSite Guru
so you can see it
ok , In this case, a double forking tree at about head hight before it splits, it can't come toward the line, pic is from under the line, ie towards us looking at the pic..
I dont just cut one at at time, first rip down the middle of the tree, turn it in to two trees, watch the dust carefully, thats where the termites are likely to be, for the leader going up hill a humbolt was used to scarf the tree, less chance of it comeing back on the stump, you'll also notice uneven holding wood ( taper cut) I call it a twist cut, to send it away from the wires,
The cut on the right, was going down hill, but still be carefull the heads can be very springy and when they hit the ground the branches flex, some dont break , and the inercia throws them back at you..
Now Plunge cut your way in to the first tree, the one on the right, you allready have both scarves in, pull up early and start the next one..Notise on the left one I have very high holding wood, that one gets cut to fall first, it will be slower, gives you a chanc to drop the other one AT THE SAME TIME ,timming is everything..
I want the trees to fall at the same time, you have the right one tetering, cut the "slow" one to drop, quickly withdraw and plunge the right to fall...They should both hit the ground at the same time
Next post is "why"?
ok , In this case, a double forking tree at about head hight before it splits, it can't come toward the line, pic is from under the line, ie towards us looking at the pic..
I dont just cut one at at time, first rip down the middle of the tree, turn it in to two trees, watch the dust carefully, thats where the termites are likely to be, for the leader going up hill a humbolt was used to scarf the tree, less chance of it comeing back on the stump, you'll also notice uneven holding wood ( taper cut) I call it a twist cut, to send it away from the wires,
The cut on the right, was going down hill, but still be carefull the heads can be very springy and when they hit the ground the branches flex, some dont break , and the inercia throws them back at you..
Now Plunge cut your way in to the first tree, the one on the right, you allready have both scarves in, pull up early and start the next one..Notise on the left one I have very high holding wood, that one gets cut to fall first, it will be slower, gives you a chanc to drop the other one AT THE SAME TIME ,timming is everything..
I want the trees to fall at the same time, you have the right one tetering, cut the "slow" one to drop, quickly withdraw and plunge the right to fall...They should both hit the ground at the same time
Next post is "why"?
Derek
ArboristSite Guru
board yet?
Har Har ha....Just to confuss you BTM, you passed my first test a while ago, you tell me?
You now have shots of both sides of the same tree, can you see why I call them stepcuts? they just look like them...
See how the middel was cut out to allow for the saw to have quick accsess....
A little time consumming but I was on hourly back then..lol..lol..
At the end of the day we went home (motel) safe and sound..
WHY sure ..Apart from the hitting the line issue, I have found trees to be very unreliable things, hard grains, soft grains, tension grains, water pockets, BUGS defects of all kinds..
Most of the time its simply hangers and the interlooking they do at full height..If you dare bring one half down at a time, you run the serious risk of being hit with all sorts of debris from above as it rips off the tree top
(Angoffera's are the worst trees for it)
Now if you did one and RAN like hell, the other half of the tree is unstable (at best) and thats if you dident put your scarf in yet..
it can go anywhere, back too the tension issues, What was holding it together, bark? once you take one side, it could just split, safer all round to drop them all at once!...
I'll look for some tripples next, now there lots of fun, all three down at once....
This is another double tree, I wrote a long story (no kidding) on how I did this one, (while I was tied into the droppoff side)
Wouldent show my mum a video of it though(or workcover)
It all had to stay up on the top of the mountian...BRB..Derek..
Har Har ha....Just to confuss you BTM, you passed my first test a while ago, you tell me?
You now have shots of both sides of the same tree, can you see why I call them stepcuts? they just look like them...
See how the middel was cut out to allow for the saw to have quick accsess....
A little time consumming but I was on hourly back then..lol..lol..
At the end of the day we went home (motel) safe and sound..
WHY sure ..Apart from the hitting the line issue, I have found trees to be very unreliable things, hard grains, soft grains, tension grains, water pockets, BUGS defects of all kinds..
Most of the time its simply hangers and the interlooking they do at full height..If you dare bring one half down at a time, you run the serious risk of being hit with all sorts of debris from above as it rips off the tree top
(Angoffera's are the worst trees for it)
Now if you did one and RAN like hell, the other half of the tree is unstable (at best) and thats if you dident put your scarf in yet..
it can go anywhere, back too the tension issues, What was holding it together, bark? once you take one side, it could just split, safer all round to drop them all at once!...
I'll look for some tripples next, now there lots of fun, all three down at once....
This is another double tree, I wrote a long story (no kidding) on how I did this one, (while I was tied into the droppoff side)
Wouldent show my mum a video of it though(or workcover)
It all had to stay up on the top of the mountian...BRB..Derek..
BewtifulTreeMan
ArboristSite Operative
Re: board yet?
First, I'm not a troll, I'm here to learn - specificly all things felling. I know some of my questions may seem kinda dumb, but what can i say, i'm a newbie.
Questions:
actually i dont, maybe netree can draw a picture.
and how do you get them to fall at the same time? you can't be reducing the holding wood on both leaders at the same time.
How does felling them at the same time decrease the amount of falling debris? will most of it fall with one side or the other if they fall at the same time?
I look forward to seeing that
where can i read that story?
First, I'm not a troll, I'm here to learn - specificly all things felling. I know some of my questions may seem kinda dumb, but what can i say, i'm a newbie.
Questions:
actually i dont, maybe netree can draw a picture.
and how do you get them to fall at the same time? you can't be reducing the holding wood on both leaders at the same time.
How does felling them at the same time decrease the amount of falling debris? will most of it fall with one side or the other if they fall at the same time?
I look forward to seeing that
where can i read that story?
Derek
ArboristSite Guru
scanners not playing nicely?
Welcome back, no comments other than BTM?, Let me fill in some blanks..
The trick to felling them at the same time IS to reduce the holding wood on the leader with the higher release cut , till its almost going to go, get the other to the same stage, our saws are fast and sharp , an 088 makes short work of green timber..
Till I can draw on my pics, just think about cutting out a little box between the trees.
Pull it out and put it back real quick in the slower to fall (higher release cut) side as it goes hit the other (quick) side, they should fall together under compleat control, no 45* exit, stay right there, look at them, be ready to duck and weave the debris, be ready call "FIRE" it it was to go wrong..
Most of the stuff gets pulled to the ground still in the tree, I have found that there is much less crapfall on you than if you one go at a time, gravity lets it go straight down not stay in the tree..
Strange job, stranger tress, bizzare cuts to get them down..
Lots more to come..It got late . Tring to scan photos (not recent and not on disk) of tripples for you, not working?? Angoffras are horrible...
this pic is a single Angoffera but I still had to climb it to remove the twisted ,still attatched dead branches, the tree starts to go and drops its load on you..
Ive known men to have serious injurys droping angofferas
Welcome back, no comments other than BTM?, Let me fill in some blanks..
The trick to felling them at the same time IS to reduce the holding wood on the leader with the higher release cut , till its almost going to go, get the other to the same stage, our saws are fast and sharp , an 088 makes short work of green timber..
Till I can draw on my pics, just think about cutting out a little box between the trees.
Pull it out and put it back real quick in the slower to fall (higher release cut) side as it goes hit the other (quick) side, they should fall together under compleat control, no 45* exit, stay right there, look at them, be ready to duck and weave the debris, be ready call "FIRE" it it was to go wrong..
Most of the stuff gets pulled to the ground still in the tree, I have found that there is much less crapfall on you than if you one go at a time, gravity lets it go straight down not stay in the tree..
Strange job, stranger tress, bizzare cuts to get them down..
Lots more to come..It got late . Tring to scan photos (not recent and not on disk) of tripples for you, not working?? Angoffras are horrible...
this pic is a single Angoffera but I still had to climb it to remove the twisted ,still attatched dead branches, the tree starts to go and drops its load on you..
Ive known men to have serious injurys droping angofferas
Derek
ArboristSite Guru
still wont work, makin funny noises...No scans, no I cant find the long version of that story on the cliffhanger, Hmmm was that it?..It late, anyone eles know where it is..
Ill try to sherch for it under my name tommorow..
Heres the tree saying bye , now its safe to cut...
Did you note all the hanging stuff still on the scarfing side?
Note is gone on the realise side..
More questions please, will answer the rest up top later..Derek..
Ill try to sherch for it under my name tommorow..
Heres the tree saying bye , now its safe to cut...
Did you note all the hanging stuff still on the scarfing side?
Note is gone on the realise side..
More questions please, will answer the rest up top later..Derek..
Derek
ArboristSite Guru
hey BTM...
Havent forgotten you...Will be back on tonight, 10 hours away...
Will have the rest of this then..
Have a safe day..Derek..
Havent forgotten you...Will be back on tonight, 10 hours away...
Will have the rest of this then..
Have a safe day..Derek..
BewtifulTreeMan
ArboristSite Operative
thanks man, still here, still learnin
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
Me either... I was waiting for a light to come on... 
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
Did I miss a movie clip?
Which way did it go???
Which way did it go???
Derek
ArboristSite Guru
Hi there, The story on the cliff hanger took some finding, but here it is...
braging huh
Well said netree At least he has a lot of pics to prove it...
They carn't all be trick photography.............can they???
heres a good "brag" And time some of you saw my face...
Shere drop of on the other side of this stump almost needed to put thoses planks (like Mr Martins pics of earley days) to drop it
I'd allready climbed it 3 times , not happy when im back on ground with its weight distrebution (shockin spellin)...
I ended up splitting it back to two trees while hanging in it. about 5m from were it was joined till first fork. (it was two trees once). Needed my 88 and 1200 bar and it still wasent long enough,had to work it from both sides.
Then i started my realese cut (still hangin) cause i wouldent reach that spot after i make notch,still with me? now to get rid of remaining (fartherest away) . done by 4ft secs chained to excervator, he pulled them up the bank.. Now i have somwere to stand to make realease cut (after i'v made humbolt, tree is heading up hill and i wont risk it coming back and knocking me off the stump..
WHY see the lines in the photo... they put it in the most mungrel country imaganable Derek
P.S yes I untied before dropping it.. very interesting job that one..
Attachment: laystump.jpg
This has been downloaded 43 time(s).
For the rest of the still confussed ones, ill post this, reread the begining and get back to you with the light...Must be getting to something???
Right click LMAO...
Derek..
braging huh
Well said netree At least he has a lot of pics to prove it...
They carn't all be trick photography.............can they???
heres a good "brag" And time some of you saw my face...
Shere drop of on the other side of this stump almost needed to put thoses planks (like Mr Martins pics of earley days) to drop it
I'd allready climbed it 3 times , not happy when im back on ground with its weight distrebution (shockin spellin)...
I ended up splitting it back to two trees while hanging in it. about 5m from were it was joined till first fork. (it was two trees once). Needed my 88 and 1200 bar and it still wasent long enough,had to work it from both sides.
Then i started my realese cut (still hangin) cause i wouldent reach that spot after i make notch,still with me? now to get rid of remaining (fartherest away) . done by 4ft secs chained to excervator, he pulled them up the bank.. Now i have somwere to stand to make realease cut (after i'v made humbolt, tree is heading up hill and i wont risk it coming back and knocking me off the stump..
WHY see the lines in the photo... they put it in the most mungrel country imaganable Derek
P.S yes I untied before dropping it.. very interesting job that one..
Attachment: laystump.jpg
This has been downloaded 43 time(s).
For the rest of the still confussed ones, ill post this, reread the begining and get back to you with the light...Must be getting to something???
Right click LMAO...
Derek..
Derek
ArboristSite Guru
Well I had a look so far, terible spelling all the way through, but nothing that should leave big holes in the concept??
Whats the matter? Sounds ok to me!!
The story on the "stump" was a lot shorter than I thought BTW
Im not seeing the problem..
Cant go right angles. cant drop whole tree.Dont wont to risk getting hit as they rip apart and drop stuff every. Dont want to do them one at a time, the other could go toward the line.it might be unstable, STEP CUTS was a name i think I made up years ago, it seemed quicker than explaining all the above..
Is it the timming issue? if you have a higher release cut, the tree falls a little slower, gives you time to get the other going..
Is it the box you cut out,? will need an artist to do that one for me..
video of one in action would be cool but dont have the facilities...
I guess cause ive done them so much, I have a clearer picure of the whole prosess...
The size of the box is, depending on the size of the tree, enough to get the saw in the BOTTOM of the box to drop lets say the right hand leader, the TOP of the box on the other, one is a higher cut , to slow the falling down enough to get the other to go at the same time....Does that help??.
Around for awhile to try to answer any thing eles on the subject,..
Do any other readers do anything similer ?, how do others drop double trees to big or "weighted" to much to go the way you want them to??
Wheres somone clever with a drawing??..Cheers Derek..
Ps I dident drop this one, climbed it took out the top, you can just see the lines...this is similer to the double trees I refer to, how would you drop it , ( granted the left leader is not heading to the left but imagine it was...
Still looking at pics, tring to find somthing that looks like the step cut shots. BEFORE I cut them.Bummmer still no scaner working, any thing older than 12 months isnt on disk..D
Whats the matter? Sounds ok to me!!
The story on the "stump" was a lot shorter than I thought BTW
Im not seeing the problem..
Cant go right angles. cant drop whole tree.Dont wont to risk getting hit as they rip apart and drop stuff every. Dont want to do them one at a time, the other could go toward the line.it might be unstable, STEP CUTS was a name i think I made up years ago, it seemed quicker than explaining all the above..
Is it the timming issue? if you have a higher release cut, the tree falls a little slower, gives you time to get the other going..
Is it the box you cut out,? will need an artist to do that one for me..
video of one in action would be cool but dont have the facilities...
I guess cause ive done them so much, I have a clearer picure of the whole prosess...
The size of the box is, depending on the size of the tree, enough to get the saw in the BOTTOM of the box to drop lets say the right hand leader, the TOP of the box on the other, one is a higher cut , to slow the falling down enough to get the other to go at the same time....Does that help??.
Around for awhile to try to answer any thing eles on the subject,..
Do any other readers do anything similer ?, how do others drop double trees to big or "weighted" to much to go the way you want them to??
Wheres somone clever with a drawing??..Cheers Derek..
Ps I dident drop this one, climbed it took out the top, you can just see the lines...this is similer to the double trees I refer to, how would you drop it , ( granted the left leader is not heading to the left but imagine it was...
Still looking at pics, tring to find somthing that looks like the step cut shots. BEFORE I cut them.Bummmer still no scaner working, any thing older than 12 months isnt on disk..D
