Sticky cottonwood situation. Need advice.

[bootboy]

I will post pics soon.

Here's the deal. A cluster of BIG cottonwoods 100'+ tall growing near a stream bed. About 2 months ago we had a nasty wind storm that partially uprooted a tall, skinny (36" at base and 50' to first bifurcation) and it is now leaning at a 45 degree angle into a neighboring tree resting on a branch about 35-40' up. No structures threatened, and fortunately none of the other trees are involved. I'm confident that removing the leaner can be done safely. My plan is to have 2 tie in points in large nearby trees and remove the portion of the leaner above the branch that it now rests on. Once reduced to more or less the main trunk what is the best plan of action? I really need to get some pics up but I've been losing sleep over this job for weeks. I've got loads of rope and rigging gear so I'm prepared to get as elaborate as I need to if it means doing it in the safest way possible.

Thoughts?

I need to get this done or at least have a solid plan in place so can stop dreaming about it.

 

[imagineero]

You are right to get advice, those sort of trees are about as dangerous as they come. One wrong move can be the last you'll ever make. This is the sort of situation that can be out of the league of regular tree guys and stepping into the bounds of experienced fallers who deal with similar situations on a daily basis. When normal people have a go it makes for some great youtube footage if nobody is killed.

Do get pics up before listening to any advice given. As a rough general in those sort of situations, my order of approach is;

Pulling the hanger down is the best situation. Not as hard as it sounds sometimes, just need a big enough piece of plant to haul, and a big rope. Set it high and down she comes.

Climbing the tree it's hung up is sometimes the second best thing. At least you're above the hanger, dont let your rope hang down low. Can be better to leave the top in to let it fall if it can. If not, assess and plan before proceeding.

Sometimes you can notch the leaner at the base in the normal way, and cut one side of the hinge out after the back cut is made to 'roll' the leaner out of the other tree. Plenty of potential for injury - tree can barber chair, or roll back on you, root ball can kick up, etc.

Cutting the tree the leaner is hung up on is starting to step into deep danger territory.

If you have access to dynamite.....

Shaun

 

[bootboy]

I'll get pics up in the next day or two. I think the limbs may be tangled up enough that pulling it out is not an option without first cutting. The good news is that there are other large trees nearby so tie in points are convenient. I'd like to do as little as possible on the ground, cutting something while hanging above it feels better than being underneath it, ya know? I feel like that way, if I keep my climbing line(s) tidy that the tree will go but one way, down, and if it got ugly I could simply swing out of the way. I've been climbing for recreation since I was a wee lad and feel right at home on the end of a rope.

Funny you should mention dynamite... I ski patrol at a local resort where we use 200+ charges on a busy morning after a storm for avalanche control. That's why I'm up so early today, avalanche control. I don't need the ATF coming to my house though. I certainly don't want to go to prison

Like I said, I'll get pics up and we can put our heads together. This business of losing sleep thinking about it is getting old.

 

[bootboy]

As a side note, how much does one charge for a job like this? Alone, standing upright, the tree would be at least $1500. How much does the hazardous removal change things?

 

[tree MDS]

As a side note, how much does one charge for a job like this? Alone, standing upright, the tree would be at least $1500. How much does the hazardous removal change things?

Good question! I have been wondering about such things myself. :msp_sneaky:

 

[tree md]

If it's not over a structure then cutting it from the ground and pulling it out from a safe distance is your best bet in most situations.

 

[Kottonwood]

The tallest cottonwood in the country is 105 ft tall..... so your measurements may be a bit off.

Either way the best thing to do is get a rope in it and yank it down, or climb the other tree and cut the top out until there is only a tiny bit holding it on, then yank it down with a rope. Make sure you are always above the hanger when cutting and sometimes I like to keep my climb line in a rope bag so it can't get snagged if the widow maker goes. I have never had to deal with one that big before, most widow makers I deal with are 50-60 ft creek willows over hiking paths or something.

Edit: also remember once you start removing weight from the top of the tree it may decide to stand back up straight..... doubt it with a tree of that size, but be prepared for it.

As far as charging for emergency work. I usually just add some on for the extra time it is going to take to figure things out and be safe since it is not a typical job. I also add on about 20 a man hour if we are out there at weird hours to get it done.

Pics, FTA?

 

[Toddppm]

He's definitely guessing but there are alot of Cottonwoods bigger than that. Even around here they get that tall. Just had me wondering, the first result that came up was some random webpage that said 105', here's the champion tree site Populus deltoides ssp. deltoides | American Forests

 

[Kottonwood]

I'll get pics up in the next day or two. I think the limbs may be tangled up enough that pulling it out is not an option without first cutting. The good news is that there are other large trees nearby so tie in points are convenient. I'd like to do as little as possible on the ground, cutting something while hanging above it feels better than being underneath it, ya know? I feel like that way, if I keep my climbing line(s) tidy that the tree will go but one way, down, and if it got ugly I could simply swing out of the way. I've been climbing for recreation since I was a wee lad and feel right at home on the end of a rope.

Funny you should mention dynamite... I ski patrol at a local resort where we use 200+ charges on a busy morning after a storm for avalanche control. That's why I'm up so early today, avalanche control. I don't need the ATF coming to my house though. I certainly don't want to go to prison

Like I said, I'll get pics up and we can put our heads together. This business of losing sleep thinking about it is getting old.

HAHA well if you want to take it down with some dynamite I might let you in on some tried and true formulas....... if you promise to get some video and not implicate me when you kill yourself.


Personally I would stick with climbing it. Don't even think about cutting the tree it is leaning into..... all sorts of recipes for disaster in that mix

 

[Kottonwood]

He's definitely guessing but there are alot of Cottonwoods bigger than that. Even around here they get that tall. Just had me wondering, the first result that came up was some random webpage that said 105', here's the champion tree site Populus deltoides ssp. deltoides | American Forests

Really.... damn I guessI have been duped. There is a cottonwood tree here in CO that is 105ft tall and is considered a champion tree..... it's supposed to be the tallest. Maybe it is just for a "plains cottonwood"

 

[formationrx]

geez

use another tree to let down the leaner.

 

[flushcut]

Pics would be nice but from what you have described hike up the supporting tree and pop off the limb holding it. Also if you have never done tree work before hire somebody who has, big hang ups are NOT for learning on. Stay safe.

 

[imagineero]

As a side note, how much does one charge for a job like this? Alone, standing upright, the tree would be at least $1500. How much does the hazardous removal change things?

Surprisingly little.

If you have the skills it isn't any extra work. If you don't, you shouldn't be doing it. Experienced fallers can take something like that out so quick it will make you dizzy, and it might cost no more than a carton of beer. Having an eye for where the tension, compression and balance is on a tree takes time and experience, but when you've got it... making the cut doesn't take any extra time. Experienced sawyers have an understanding of the nuance and mechanics of a notch that it's borderline black magic.

You might consider getting a quality faller in just to get her on the ground. Ask around in the logging forum. You might learn something. Just be sure you get someone who is good rather than someone who talks good, and don't think that just because he does it in a second that you could do it in a second on your next tree. Pay attention, ask questions and you'll pick up some pointers. You could easily factor it into the job and maybe even make more money off the job that way. Nice to have a second saw for bucking and limbing, but don't be ever thinking that a logger will drag brush. Once the saw work is done, give the nice man some money, thank him and let him go.

Better than attending a course, no risk of damage to your gear, and no chance of killing yourself. Could be worth a try.

Shaun

 

[tree md]

I do a lot of uprooted trees in storm situations. Very rarely do I have one that does not need to be lowered from over a structure. It's nice when you have other large trees around to tie in to as well as set a rigging line to lower. I will do that in most situations where I can. I rig the top out down to the pressure point then come down, cut from the ground and hang the rest of the tree out of another one to lower it. If there is no other tree around to rig from I will call in a crane in most cases when it is over a structure.

Here is one that I lowered from over a property in a storm damaged area. The Pine in the foreground was uprooted and hung up in another pine over a million+ dollar property. I am setting a bull line in the tree I took the pic from:

 

[superjunior]

use another tree to let down the leaner.

or even two if they're available. plus that could help with placement. really need pics to offer any sound advise

 

[formationrx]

....

your on it SJ....

 

[formationrx]

thats 2

you got it too tree md.....:rolleyes2:

 

[bootboy]

Ok so my measurements were from memory and I looked again. The tallest is near ~85'. Regardless, they are large trees for our area. I've done tree work before. I'm no pro but I'm no hack either. At the angle that it's leaning and the disruption of the ground and roots at its base, having it stand back up is the least of my concerns. I'm not sure I'll have daylight to take pics today after work or not. If so I'll post them. As I mentioned before, to get it free enough to pull out would require a fair amount of cutting above the contact point. I think it's too close to the trunk of the tree it's leaning on to cut the branch it's resting on.

Need pics... I know

 

[no tree to big]

the way it sounds you have not done much tree work and should not be attemting a situation like this:monkey: hope you make it back to the site to tell us how it went...

 

[bootboy]

Problem solved. High explosives, 1kg of PETN. Bore the trunk and stack a few of these in there.
Just kidding. Getting pics today.