Stihl 041 ignition woes, troubleshooting tips

[Ranchero50]

Two weeks ago I found a 041 av in the scrap metal dumpster at work (don't ask) in decent condition so I pulled it out. Had no spark and the plastic starter ring was chewed up, but would mildly light you up holding the spak plug lead, but not nearly as bad as it should. Figured the magnets in the flywheel were weak (happened before on other motors) and it lost the ability to generate the primary side ignition voltage. Without the plug in I ran the saw with a 3/8 drill on the flywheel nut to 2500rpm for about two minutes and it started firing the plug, weak at first and then stronger. Bolted it all back together and no spark... Back on the drill for a couple minutes and it fired the plug again. Got it back together much quicker this time and it started on the first pull. Ran it for about ten minutes making a few test cuts and toying with the carb and it ran fair to good on a dead chain and flat bar.

Left it sit for a week waiting on the plastic ring to arrive (it still hasn't) and now I lost the spark again. This one has the electronic ignition (I think Bosch's). With the kill switch lead dissconnected I get 4vac on that lead with the drill turning the motor over and it reads 0ohm to the chassis when not turning over. Plan on pulling the flywheel off tomorow after my machinist makes a puller for it.

I've done the search for carbs and ignition stuff and am stumped besides swapping the whole works out. Any tips or further troubleshooting ideas are appreciated.

Jamie

 

[Kenskip1]

041 ignition woes,

Jamie,
I own a 041 and mine runs great. However, as to your queston about the flywheel magnets has me perplexed. Is their any rust covering the magnets? Or are the magnets on the inside of the flywheel?When you spin it over, is the spark consistant or hit and miss? Have you replaced the plug?If you take a screwdriver and hold it next to the magnet, does the magnet pull the screwdriver? Looking through my owners manual on page 34, it lists a set of points. Item #3.part number 1115 400 2000 Condenser is item 6 PN 1115 404 3400. Replace these and you should be in business.Keep us posted, Good luck, Ken

 

[jensen 32000]

Troubleshooting

Kenskip: He said ELECTRONIC ignition, as in no points and condenser. Jamie: I think your troubleshooting so far, got you to the point of why it was in the dumpster. Check all the connections. Make sure the on/off switch isn't shorting out. Also makesure the plug wire has a good connection on both ends. It may be the ELECTRONIC ignition is faulting intermittedly, and if so may be hard to find and rather expensive. Good Luck!

 

[MacDaddy]

call Rusty Warrens Saw shop 530 283 2226 he has a pile of saws so big it has its own zip code

 

[Al Smith]

It's own zip code?? H Ha Ha My kinda man.

 

[Ranchero50]

Thank you for the replys. I figure it's electronic from what I've seen in pics here and on ebay compared to what I can see under the flywheel. The air filter cover just says 041 AV so go figure. The saw has excellent compression and the covers are in pretty good shape. I figured it was pitched because the pull starter didn't do anything. The screw heads were grime filled and I think it just sat in a shed somewhere and rusted for lack of interest.

For ken, when it fires it fires good and hot, but I had a lot of weak spark at first, like a condensor acting up or the points grime covered. Jensen, I tested it with the kill switch disconnected and got voltage while it was turning over indicating to me that it wasn't shorting out to the case. Still hope to see more when it's apart.

Is it possible to swap in an aftermarket ignition on this style saw or do I need a points setup to trigger those?

Heck, it's a good cutting saw when it runs. I did get to have some fun the other night when it was running with a good chain and for the money if I throw $100 or so at it and it's like new then it's still one heck of a deal.

Jamie

 

[Ranchero50]

Well heck, a coworker just fabbed a slide hammer adapter and I popped the flywheel off and one of the four magnets is missing in action. It's a points setup too BTW... Figured it out once it was apart. The flywheel part number is 0.204.003.033 from Bosch. Anyone have one, or another that will work? Saw the electronic conversion kit on ebay for $11 and may spring for one of those too.

As always, any help appreciated.

 

[Kenskip1]

041 Points/Flywheel

Jamie,
I called my local Stihl dealer and left a message on his machine.I am sure that he has a used flywheel lurking about. He should have the points and condenser in stock. I will await his call and get some prices for you.I think flywheels are used on other saws so this should not pose a problem. If you locate what you need email me. We will get this thing going! Ken

 

[Ranchero50]

Excellent.

 

[stihltech]

041

LOTS of those parts around used. Put in the electronic conversion module, works great.

 

[Ranchero50]

Tech

looks like the metal that came loose is just a focus plate for the magnetic material on this flywheel. Going to trim down a peice of 16ga sheetmetal and bond it to the flywheel to test that theory.

Guess this explains why it fired after laying a heavy magnet on the flywheel... Kind of super charged the dang thing...

Jamie

 

[Ranchero50]

All better Woop Woop

Got a notion today at work and cut a peice of 14ga sheetmetal to fit the missing plate and epoxied it in place. Found a lathe that wasn't locked out and tuned the thick peice of sheet metal to match the others (PITA on a magnet with shavings clinging everywhere) Popped it back together and turned it over with the plug out with a air drill and got a nice blue-white spark.

Lets see;
Compression, check
Fuel, check
Spark. check

Should run again. Thanks to all for the help. Will report results tomorow (yes I have to work Sundays too...)

Jamie

 

[Mange]

I did not hear the fat lady..............

My best wiches for you though!!!!

 

[canguy21]

Great stuff. I found a Stihl 045 AV Super complete except for the bar and chain in our scrap bin. The boss is a bean counter, not a saw guy and scraps eveything he can't resell right away. No appreciation of the old stuff and doesn't care. Going to play with it today and see what it needs. Compression a little iffy.
A customer gave me a complete Pioneer 450 that he says runs but getting a little hard to start. Think I will just polish this one up, getting too old to pack this beast around.

 

[Ranchero50]

Fat Lady...

Well, the fat lady burped, sang and then farted...

Didn't seem to have spark at first, pulled the tank and spun it over and got spark pretty quick. Popped it back together and it tried to run a bunch of times for a couple seconds each time. Found the fuel line had kinked when I put it back together, unkinked it and it started, for about five seconds and cut out like it lost fuel. Got it to the point that it would run half choked after cleaning the plug a couple times. Played with carb some more and must have flooded it pretty good because for some odd reason it tried to kickback while pull startikng it and I sheared the crank woodruff key off. Probally had a peice of junk in the taper and it didn't seat together very well.

Gonna make one today and try again.

The saga continues...

Jamie

 

[chainsawworld]

am i allowed to say here that i will sell you a running 041 for parts or use for $100.00 plus shipping? marty

 

[Ranchero50]

Chainsawworld, I may take you up on that offer, hope the mods don't object to your posting it. Fixing broken machines is a hobby of mine and saws just happen to provide heat so this project is double fun, and challenging.

I fabricated a new woodruff key and installed it, spun the flywheel by hand and had good spark, put in the plug and it fired right off. Carb is out of adjustment, doesn't want to idle without the choke. Probally sucked some junk too. Still having fun though. Supposed to go cut down a dead walnut tree Monday or Tuesday. Would love to have this thing up and running 100%.

Jamie

 

[Crofter]

Carb is out of adjustment, doesn't want to idle without the choke. Probally sucked some junk too.
This should ring an alarm that you might have an air leak into crankcase. It can be a real pain to troubleshoot when you have two real problems together like ignition and an air leak. You say you sheared key? lean mixture from air leak can lead to back fire and key shearing too.

 

[Ranchero50]

Nutz

Well, the fat lady finally sang. Surprisingly enough I looked in the fuel tank and noticed the fuel filter was missing and the pickup tube was about 1/4" out of the juice. Got it running pretty good, happy as a pig in poop.

Halfway through a test cut the air filter started shaking. In the second or two it took to assess it and realise the whole filter assembly was shaking and the lock down knob wasn't spinning one of the factory carb lock nuts came off the stud and went through the carb. Chaos soon followed...

Broke the piston and put a nice divit in the jug's intake port. Took it apart and cleaned out all the shredded aluminum bits and peices. Piled it all in a 5 gallon bucket and put it in the shed.

A new piston assembly goes off ebay tonight, going to try for it.

Pisser was the dang thing was finally running correctly and I was having fun with it. I was rip cutting some cedar for dog bedding and filled a trash bag in a couple minutes run time.

Must have patience...

Jamie

 

[Mange]

I do not no what to say..............
At least you heard the song :blob5:

Hope you get it running again.