Stihl 041, points or electronic

[Lakeside53]

Here's the section on the Electronic versions.. Sorry about the size but I tried to keep the quality up for decent print. I'll play more with it...

The points version pages will follow...

 

[Trigger-Time]

Lake, Many Thanks

The guy that own's the saw, wants to use it this Sat.
Should I tell him to wait until after I can check the
timing? It starts ease and runs ok.........but if the
timing is to far off it could damage his saw correct?

To far advance.........hard on piston, crank and bearings.

To close to TDC........burn a hole in top of piston.

 

[Lakeside53]

Points version pages

Interesting reading.. from the days when they told you how it worked, as well as how to fix it...

 

[Lakeside53]

Lake, Many Thanks

The guy that own's the saw, wants to use it this Sat.
Should I tell him to wait until after I can check the
timing? It starts ease and runs ok.........but if the
timing is to far off it could damage his saw correct?

To far advance.........hard on piston, crank and bearings.

To close to TDC........burn a hole in top of piston.

Not sure what to tell you... you know the issues...

 

[Trigger-Time]

Not sure what to tell you... you know the issues...

I guess I will rig up a dial indicator and timing marker (pointer)

Will a automotive timing light work.....if hooked up to a battery?

Thanks again for the info!

 

[Lakeside53]

The automotive timing light will will work just fine.

 

[Trigger-Time]

Lake, It is very good reading.

This should be mandatory reading for anyone that has a 041.

 

[Lakeside53]

Yep!! when someone asks a question we can say - read this thread, page 37, paragraph 3, or whatever

Wait... just say "USE SEARCH"!!!:rockn:

 

[Stihlkickin]

I have a question about ignition timing on a retrofitted-electronic 041 Farm Boss. I recently replaced my ignition points and condenser with a Mega-Fire electronic module. It is very posible that the timing is off on my saw, though it runs like a raped ape. I read the files posted by Lakeside, and I can tell you now, I have absolutely no access to the timing unit the manual refers to. However, I have a very good automotive timing light. Can I use that to check the timing, and if so, how many degrees advanced should the timing be?

 

[belgian]

Well, I need some help with an electronic 041av...

actually I have two saws, one in good condition an no spark, and another one in bad condition with spark. The ignition is clearly electronic and identical on both saws, so I say switch them.

I replace the ignition entirely including flywheel and NO spark ....wtf...
what can be the cause ? I noticed the stator plate had a matching mark, so that's what I ligned it up to.

Lake, this one is driving me nuts..

 

[belgian]

no takers ????:help:

 

[PES+]

That style ignition not used here

Not that I have ever been aware of.

Belgian...try running a jumper wire from the stator plate screw to the case of the secondary coil.

You most likely have a bad or missing ground connection. (The AV requires a fairly heavy ground braid to electrically connect the isolated metal parts)

I assume you already tried removing the kill switch from the circuit.

 

[Lakeside53]

Never seen that style either.. maybe not factory?


You said you changed the entire system? From what?

 

[belgian]

Never seen that style either.. maybe not factory?


You said you changed the entire system? From what?

Andy, this seems to be one of the earliest 041AV ignitions stihl used on those machines. it's original. the replacement was taken out of an identical 041 parts saw that I was able to find, and that saw sparked. Andy, I can give you serial numbers if interesting...


here's a pic of the thyristor ? mounted on the saw...

I assume you already tried removing the kill switch from the circuit.

Yes, I did. checked the kill switch also. I was worried about the ground issue raised by PES, but I measured everything with a Ohm meter and it seems OK.

 

[PES+]

I see that the module is indeed attached to the same ground as the stator plate now.

You are certain that there are no other pieces on the sparking saw that are missing from the saw you are attempting to fix?

Only a guess as I can find no mention of an ignition like that on a Stihl here but other saws have used similar types of ignitions and sometimes have a separate trigger coil to time the ignition.

Have you tried returning all the parts to the other saw and confirmed that it still sparks?

 

[belgian]

You are certain that there are no other pieces on the sparking saw that are missing from the saw you are attempting to fix?

I am quite positive of that.

Only a guess as I can find no mention of an ignition like that on a Stihl here but other saws have used similar types of ignitions and sometimes have a separate trigger coil to time the ignition.

I downloaded the description Lake posted about the different ignitions, and I was pretty convinced that this was the Bosh electronic version with the 4 pole flywheel, but apparently, there are different versions of it...

Have you tried returning all the parts to the other saw and confirmed that it still sparks?

I was not planning on it but I may have to do that again just to make sure....

thanks anyway for the effort. I appreciate it.

 

[Lakeside53]

My best guess is that you have 2 bad ignitions... I beleive I actually have the schematics for that at work - in Bosch book - not Stihl. I'll look on Thursday.


It look suspiciulsy like a points version that been converted... Can you read the writing on the side of the condensor on the stator plate?

If your version still has the flywheel lobes for points, it might be easier to convert back.

 

[belgian]

My best guess is that you have 2 bad ignitions... I beleive I actually have the schematics for that at work - in Bosch book - not Stihl. I'll look on Thursday.


It look suspiciulsy like a points version that been converted... Can you read the writing on the side of the condensor on the stator plate?

If your version still has the flywheel lobes for points, it might be easier to convert back.

Don't think it's converted, as both saws have the identical ignition..... The flywheel is a 4 pole, and has no cam.

The bosch numbers are (on both saws !)

HV coil : 2 204 211 082
stator plate : 2 207 031 099
condenser : 2 207 330 007
module : 0 227 300 001
flywheel : 0 204 099 001

considering all what you guys have mentioned, converting might be the only way to go, if only I had another complete ignition & flywheel...

 

[Lakeside53]

Is the condensor actually wired into the circuit?

 

[belgian]

Is the condensor actually wired into the circuit?

Yes, to the terminal marked by the arrow. you can see the wire in the pic also... still connected. Lake, the wiring scheme fits the one actually mentioned in your repair manual which you posted. The only visual difference is that the thyristor module is not located on the stator plate but on the frame.