Stihl 441....using stihl Ultra Oil mixed 40:1

[BBush]

I have a new Stihl 441 that I have mixed up some gas and oil for. Since the saw is brand new, I want to run it a little heavy on oil for the break-in period. I know that Stihl recommends running all saws, even new ones, with a 50:1 gas/oil ratio. I am planning on using a 40:1 ratio for at least the first few tanks of gas, maybe longer. I have already mixed up some gas and oil by using 2.56 oz. (1 gallon size) of Stihl Ultra oil in 0.8 gallons of 93 octane Shell premium gas. This will yield a 40:1 ratio of gas to oil. By the way, all available gas in my area is labeled as having UP to 10% ethanol in it. After doing a lot of reading on this forum, I see that a lot of people are also running extra oil in their gas also. Most of the people seem to be using anywhere from 32:1 to 50:1 gas to oil in their saws. It has been suggested that the main problem with running extra oil in the gas is that it may make the saw run too lean. My question is....if I want to run my saw with a ratio of gas to oil of 40:1, is this enough extra oil in the gas that I need to readjust my carb so that the saw doesn't potentially run lean? If I do need to adjust my saw, what extactually do I need to adjust and how much? The saw has three adjustment screws on it...H,L, and idle adjustment. I realize that each one of the screws has a cap on them from the factory that must be taken off before any adjustments. First, I want to make sure that I will not void the warranty by removing these caps. Second, provided it doesn't void the factory waranty by removing the caps, is there any easy adjustments (such as turning both the H and L screws 1/16 of a turn) to increase the amount of fuel available to mix with the air for intake. Also, does anyone think that by running my saw with Stihl's ultra oil mixed 40:1 with the gas will cause the pistol, cylinder, and muffler to carbon up?

 

[2dogs]

Sthil says not to run the saw on anything but 50:1 mix. Why would you void your warranty and act like you know more than a Stihl engineer? Makes no sense to me. Just take it easy for the first tank or two if you want to do something that may help your saw. But I guess you won't believe anyone here since you do not believe Stihl.

 

[mikefunaro]

Tune it so it's just barely four stroking in the cut. Normally you'd want it to clean up completely but it's probably smart to keep it a little rich for break in. Consult the madsens website for tuning instructions. I would really recommend a tach though. Not sure if that saw has a limiter or not.

You can certainly richen up the high jet if you want, but if you are unfamiliar with tuning, and/or don't have a carb, then this is sort of like shooting in the dark. Going rich in the short term doesn't pose a hazard, but you don't want to run your saw way rich and sacrifice performance and build up carbon for its whole life either. Did your dealer tach it out before he gave it to you?

 

[blsnelling]

50:1 and run it. I suspect both the H and L needles are already against the stops on the rich side.

 

[mikefunaro]

The best one of these types of posts was a guy saying he was "old and stubborn" or something to that effect, that he was buying a really clean running shindaiwa mini4 stroke blower, but he insisted on running it 25:1, and then scoured the internet looking for opinions on which oil would do the least amount of carbon/crap buildup at the 25:1 ratio.

 

[NeoTree]

Sounds like you run into more problems tuning it to run 40:1 when it's not recommended. It's a freakin 441, treat it like a chainsaw.

 

[Anthony_Va.]

I agree. I run 50:1 in my stihls and they run like tops. No use is trying to dance with the devil. Just go by the manual and run 50:1, for your warranties sake, and your saws.

 

[Teddy.Scout]

On a new saw, run the the recommended!

But I will step into the firing line with you! I run all my saws at 40:1!!!!!
BUT! BUT! I do not own any new saws!!!!!
(some of the older 100cc+ saws I run it even down to 35:1)

 

[oneoldbanjo]

Buy a good quality full synthetic oil....mix it at 50:1.....and never think about it again.

I run my saws lightly for a few tanks and just do limbing......I don't bury the bar into some Hickory tree and lean on it. After a few tanks just use it like it was built to cut wood!

Some of us on here....myself included think too much about the oil. I mix at 50:1 for all my equipment and I have never worn anything out or had any engine failures. I have used Mobil2T until they stopped making it, now I am using Amsoil Interceptor or Maxima K2.....all mixed at 50:1 with mid grade fuel. The ethanol laden fuel will not be a problem as long as you keep your fuel fresh. Replace your fuel every three months and run your saw out of fuel if you will be storing it longer than three months.....just like it explains in your Stihl manual.

 

[BBush]

I'm not trying to act like I'm some engineer or anything, I am simply trying to make sure that my saw is broken in correctly so that it last as long as possible. I know that on any new engine, it is critical that the rings get broken in so that they seat properly. I know that the more oil that is available to the cylinder and the bearings, the less friction that is generated up to a point. I would dare say that you wouldn't run a new truck up to the manufacturer suggested oil change interval of 7,500 miles, at least I know I wouldn't. To me it's the same thing. I have run a couple of 2-cycle motorcycles with extra oil in the gas for years and never had any problems. In fact, they lasted much longer than probably the same motorcycle that was run at the suggested gas/oil mix ratio. I figured it would be the same way with a chainsaw, but apparently it is not. I don't know if it due to the fact that the gas has alcohol in it nowdays and the gas when I was running my motorcycles from years back did not. I also understand that the oil has apparently gotten better over the years, but I guess I didn't realize that it had improved that much. When I purchased an Mercury outboard motor a few years ago, the dealer himself said that I would by all means mix a bottle of oil with a tank of gas eventhough the motor has an oil injector on it. The motors are simply not being run with a enough oil because of government mandates for the environment. This is the reason that 2-cycle outbaords are basically a thing of the past. I was simply thinking that Stihl and all of the other saw manufacturers are simply suggesting a ratio of 50:1 to please the government and all of the environmentalist, not to make a saw last as long as possible. Besides, Stihl is in the business of selling saws, not in the business of selling you something and not ever having to sell you a new one from now on out. Oh by the way, the dealer serviced the saw when I purchased it and said it was taching out at 13,300 rpm. I specifically asked to make sure that it was adjusted correctly and not running lean and he said it was fine. I would be just about positive that he never touched the carb setting or anything though.

 

[BloodOnTheIce]

50:1 Ultra oil and run it.

 

[sbhooper]

I know a guy that told me he has problems with his new Stihl chainsaw. It seemed like it was not running right and had excess oil/carbon. He then went on to explain that he always wanted to be safe and added extra oil to the mix just to be sure. He took his saw to the dealer and I believe was told to just run the mix at the correct ratio. I don't think he ever (to my knowledge) had further trouble.

Chainsaws are designed to run at 50:1 with crappy petro oil. It is not even a worry with synthetic. Just run the 50:1 and be happy!

 

[oneoldbanjo]

I'm not trying to act like I'm some engineer or anything, I am simply trying to make sure that my saw is broken in correctly so that it last as long as possible. I know that on any new engine, it is critical that the rings get broken in so that they seat properly. I know that the more oil that is available to the cylinder and the bearings, the less friction that is generated up to a point. I would dare say that you wouldn't run a new truck up to the manufacturer suggested oil change interval of 7,500 miles, at least I know I wouldn't. To me it's the same thing. QUOTE]

The nickasil cylinder walls, roller and ball crank bearings and 2 cycle engine make it entirely different than breaking in a truck engine that has a cast iron block, a camshaft and babbit bearing inserts. When I am breaking in a new car I usually drive pretty easily at first and I change the oil at 1,000 miles and again at 3,000 miles.

Even at a 50:1 mix there is plenty of oil available to protect a new 2 cycle engine.

 

[cgarman]

I know a guy that told me he has problems with his new Stihl chainsaw. It seemed like it was not running right and had excess oil/carbon. He then went on to explain that he always wanted to be safe and added extra oil to the mix just to be sure. He took his saw to the dealer and I believe was told to just run the mix at the correct ratio. I don't think he ever (to my knowledge) had further trouble.

Chainsaws are designed to run at 50:1 with crappy petro oil. It is not even a worry with synthetic. Just run the 50:1 and be happy!

:agree2:

I'm one of those guys who always ran saws at 50:1, until I bought a new (old) 076. I've been babying it at 32:1, reasoning that it's cheaper to buy oil than parts for a saw that's no longer made. The problem is, it bogs down way too easily. So, if it takes me twice as long to make a cut, it's not helping the saw any.

Next tank, I'm going back to 50:1.

 

[gandrimp]

Heres something I thought about while reading the above post.

Most new cars in the past said to not use synthetic oil in new engines
during the breakin period. Rings never would seat in. Not sure if the current new cars are like that or not but to much oil could be worse than better.

50-1 gets my vote.

 

[oneoldbanjo]

I believe that if you just go to the Stihl dealer and buy their 50:1 mix (regular or Ultra) you will be just fine. If you want to do the most you can for your engine I believe that buying a "premium" oil is better than just putting more oil in the fuel mix.

I don't really want to turn this into an oil thread......but I guess that is what it started out as. The technology from the 20:1/32:1 days has increased tremendously. When I first started riding a 2 stroke racing motorcycle I bought a quart of racing 2 stroke petroleum oil to dump into each 5 gallon can of gas. Then in 1974 I bought a motorcycle that had oil injection and I started using Golden Spectro, which was the fist synthetic oil I ever used and I could go all year on the same sparkplug. The most recent breakthrough that I am aware of are Ester oils that actually "cling" to the metal as a result of an ionic bond.......the oil is attracted to the metal and wants to stay there.

Here is a quote from one of the manufacturers of an Ester oil: "Provides up to five times more film strength than petroleum oils and up to three times more than synthetic blends. Handles very high temperatures and burns so clean that power valve and exhaust deposits are all but eliminated.

Finding Ester oils takes a bit of persistance and you will probably have to visit a motorcycle shop or get it online. I have just started using Maxima K2 and I had to mail order it....the local motorcycle shops carried Maxima but not the K2 formula.

 

[NeoTree]

Heres something I thought about while reading the above post.

Most new cars in the past said to not use synthetic oil in new engines
during the breakin period. Rings never would seat in. Not sure if the current new cars are like that or not but to much oil could be worse than better.

50-1 gets my vote.

Exactly, you need some amount of friction to break the rings in.

 

[ray benson]

Exactly, you need some amount of friction to break the rings in.

That is just a myth.
http://www.texlube.com/oilmyths.htm

 

[jus2fat]

I kind of go the "middle" route...(on NEW 2-stroke equip.)
I run 2 tanks full at 40:1..then switch to 50:1 mix.
Want to get lubrication at first..then break-in...never a problem.
Idea is to get slow break-in...maybe "over the top"..but..never a problem.

J2F

 

[oneoldbanjo]

Exactly, you need some amount of friction to break the rings in.

Our VW Jetta came with Castrol Syntec 5W-50 in it from the factory and is the only oil we have ever used in the car.....and it now has 254,000 miles on it and it still runs like new and doesn't burn any oil. There doesn't seem to be any "break in" problems with this car.

As soon as I get my saws from the dealer I dump out their mix and put my synthetic fuel mix in......and they run great and seem to break in just fine.

I really don't think that synthetic oils have any less "friction" than regular oil, they have better resistance to heat and film failure, and in 2 stroke oils I believe they can run cleaner. If your oil fails and allows metal to metal contact.......that does not sound like a good "break in" procedure to me.