Stihl going to NGK plugs?

[ClearH20Scott]

I have purchased two new MS440's in the past three months or
so, both machines have had NGK BPMR7A's screwed into them.
This doesn't bother me so much, but I thought that Bosch was
all that they sent out in new machines. I bought a couple of
WSR6F's to replace them and had another surprise, the plugs
and the packaging said "Made in India". I have also run into
Indonesian NGK's. Anyone else noticed this?
I brought it up to the dealer and he said that it was news to him.
He said Stihl school told him that anything other than Bosch
could fry the ig module. I hope that's hogwash, but who knows.
Just a heads up I guess, I brought the Indian made plugs back,
and had him rifle through his supply for some German made.
The dealer was none too pleased when I showed him, he said
he was going to send them all back, and have no fear, I'll have
the German made plugs in next time you stop in.........

 

[sedanman]

I have seen a few smaller Stihl come through with Champions........YUCK! I've seen the recommended plug listed as Bosch WSR6F OR NGK BPMR7A as far back as my '93ish 026.

 

[ClearH20Scott]

Sedan,

The 440 manual calls out both as acceptable, that's what made
me kinda chuckle when the dealer made the ignition module
comment. These are the first brand new Stihl saws I have
purchased since the late 80's. It was weird to not see a 6F in
there. I guess I'm just behind the times. Champion though,
as Charlie Brown would say UUUGGGGHHHH!!!!

 

[Tony Snyder]

I am not aware of any problem with NGKs. The only brand of plug I have hade problems with was Champion, and that was several years ago.

 

[mikek711]

Just wondering whats wrong with Champion plugs?
Mike.

 

[Fish]

Absolutely nothing wrong with Champion plugs. I still get
Bosch for those purists that insist on them, but I see far more
saws that come in with a fouled out plug have Boschs in them,
so I switched to champion.
Before, I had customers buying 3-4 Boshes at a time because
they were fouling out on them in the field, now that they have
switched to Champion, they rarely have any trouble.
Granted, the real cause of the plugs fouling may be dirty
filters, cheap oil mix, bad gas, etc.., but the Champions hold up better against this.
I would make more money and sell more plugs if I pushed the
Bosch plugs.

 

[dozerdan]

Fish is correct,there is nothing wrong with champion plugs.At one time though,I wouldn't have agreed with him.In the late 70s or 80s they did have some major problems with there plugs.If I was to do a tune up on a vehicle with champion plugs,it wasn't uncommon to find 4 out of 8 show up bad on an oscilloscope.At that time they started to get a very bad reputation.That is when they started to manufacture the copper plus line of there plugs,they work out very well.
And why wouldn't they?
Later
Dan

 

[Striker]

Chain saw, to keep on topic. The last time i bought champion plugs, three years ago, two out of six were bad. I'm glad others have had better luck than I have.

 

[ClearH20Scott]

I was going off of past experience with the Champs, I honestly
haven't had one go bad lately, because I don't use them.
Fish, did you happen to see where the fouled Bosch plugs were
manufactered, just curious if there's a correlation. I assume that
Champs are just fine, as long as they aren't manufactured
somewhere that there is little QC. I recall the Autolite plugs
were not anything to brag about either 10 or 15 years back.

 

[Toneman]

Why do you care where the plugs are made?

India or Germany, plugs are still made to the same standards using the same equipment. The "flavour of the month" these days for companies is to move to "low cost" manufacture countries such as India, China, or Malyasia. All design would still come out of the home country.

 

[ClearH20Scott]

Toneman,

The engineering may be the same, but what about the QC
standards employed? If what you say is true, that manufacturing
is being moved to save cost, you've just answered your own
question. Quality will and does suffer, I don't mean to say that
just because it's made in India it's bad, but I wonder about
the suppliers that the plant in India uses. Is the ceramic and
the electrode the same as the German made plug? I don't know,
but I'll bet not. How about the steel?
I'm a manufacturing buyer by trade, I deal with these issues all
day. I have parts that come from Singapore, Taiwan, Germany,
etc., that are among the best in the world. I have also been
burned by "equivalents", so when I buy something, I have this
horrible habit of looking at where it was made.
I would love to know that all Bosch/NGK/Champ plugs are made
to the same standards, I'm just not that trusting. Good rant for
Saturday morning if nothing else.

 

[Toneman]

ClearH20Scott

I am an Engineer in the Automotive Industry, and we a seeing a great deal of this "lower cost" country manufacture. I agree that we can easily get burned by some of these companies there, but from what I have seen so far, any company such as NGK, Champion, etc... still has their name on it and will take the required steps to make sure that the products are made to the highest standards possible. This includes the raw materials that are used to make each product.

What frightens me, is that these countries can produce, sell, and supposedly, make a profit by selling their products for about 1/2 or in some cases 1/3 of what a North American company can sell their products for.

 

[sedanman]

My predjudice against Champion plugs is old, I agree, but well earned. I used to work at a Subaru dealership. Subarus are mostly boxer engines (horizontally opposed). Because of this engine layout and Subarus manufacturing techniques many engines got built with two different brand plugs in them, Champions in one cyl head and NGKs in the other. If we had a problem with one of these cars fouling plugs on the lot (happens from moving cars around the lot frequently and not lettting anything warm up) it was ALWAYS the side with the Champions that was fouled. I can get Champions for next to nothing from work but will only run NGKs in my gas burning vehicles and either NGKs or Bosch in my power equipment.

 

[JimL]

Bosch wsr6f and i think wsr7f are the only plugs i use in stihl equipment for the most part. never have any trouble.

 

[ClearH20Scott]

Toneman,

Agreed, I don't know how some of these facilities/companies can
make it either. Some of the overseas pricing I'm getting these
days on certain things like stepper motors is scary low. Thirty
bucks five years ago, unit cost right around ten today for the same part. Quality unwavering, delivery on time, etc...
I also agree that the larger companies who care about their rep
should keep putting out a quality product, regardless of Mfg.
location. I just hope that they don't employ different standards
and testing for the same parts.



Sedan,

Does Subaru still use that flat four?

 

[Crofter]

The trend to production offshore is happening in all industries. In the short term the North American consumer is getting cheap goods, but I think he better start developing a taste for rice and beans and riding a bicycle. Eventually it will be the only way we can compete and then we wont have to worry about what kind of sparkplug to put in our bucksaws will we?

Gloom, Despair, and Agony on me.

Frank

 

[sedanman]

ClearH20Scott, Yes they do, well an updated verion of it anyway. Paul

 

[Fish]

I have not noted nor cared, if the bad plugs were made, here or
there, just noted a trend in the past 4 years. Since my recent
good luck with Champion, and their use on most equipment,
and a superior application catalog, makes me opt for them
everytime.
If one gets in a snit about every possible tangent of life,
life could be a living heck{or whatever}.
I made my post knowing full well that sparkplug brand choice
is more volatile than the pro-life/vs./murder debate.

Just thought I would throw that in, as I am officially the
instigator....

Actually, I am making no stand on that subject, just starting
trouble.

 

[Grateful11]

One of the problems I have with all this import stuff is that they manufacture it overseas and sell it here for the same price as they were when they made them here. Take shoe companies for example, they use to just about all be made here but now they make them in Indonesia or China and they seem to be charging the same now as they did then. Another company example is Delta Tools, almost all of their woodworking equipment is made in Taiwan or mainland China but they charge more now than ever for their heavier equipment.

Another problem I have is, have you ever seen the cast iron grain of a broken machine tool from China? It looks like the coarseness of creek sand, nothing like good quality Mehanite castings that machine tools that were made here used. Delta claims if they don't keep US inspectors in the overseas factories that they will try and get away with anything they can if no one is watching over them.
Grateful

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I'm really going to show my ignorance here, but aren't spark plugs just some real cheap glass with a threaded peice of metal on the outside, and a little rod of metal on the inside?
I've only been having two strokes around me for 30 years or so, and in that time I only have had spark plug problems about a half dozen times, almost exclusively on snowmobiles, and then I just dried them out and they were fine. Never on a chain saw, and I have not owened less than six saws in the last 12 years.
One time I put a plug in crooked, it wrecked the head, but the plug was fine.
Another time, I didn't use a plug wrench and broke the glass part off.
What else can go wrong? Does the metal rust or something? Does the glass start to conduct electricity?
Oh, oh, I know, The little thingy un screws off the tip and gets lost?