Stihl MSA120C Cordless

[rayjay257]

New guy here. I have been reading a lot of the threads on cordless saws [ thanks Phil ] and then decided which to buy and also decided to go ahead and join this site.

So, I bought one of these yesterday after a lot of internet surfing to help with the decision. I charged up the batt and put some oil in it and used it for about 20 mins last night. I actually had to make myself stop looking for things to do because I still needed to cut the 'show grass' before dark.

I have about 1 acre that is about 5/8 wooded. Lots of trees. Lots of broken limbs, lots of sticks. Lots of saplings. Lots of live limbs to remove during the constant limbing up task. I keep most of the wooded area trimmed to "glades" with no limbs below 7' and some areas the trees are limbed up to 10'. The ground cover is either leaf litter or leaf litter that's had a push mower ran over it to chop it up fine. I guess this would be called single canopy forest ???

Many of the limbs , dead or alive, are just too big for a lopper but too small to justify gassing and oiling up one of the gas saws for 10 minutes of cutting the wood to burn barrel length. I have to burn 2 or 3 times every fall and winter to keep up with all the wood that comes down.

This cordless saw is absolutely ideal for this. It's 8.5 lbs which is 2.5 lbs less than my Stihl 010. Low noise, no vibration, no smoke and stinky clothes. Much easier to make precise cuts like in a crotch where one branch is dead and the other alive. The tiny chain is a major part of the saw's success. You just are not removing much wood so less power is needed to make a smooth steady cut. One of the carvers here mentioned this and I see now what he was getting at.

One of these would be super to have for camping.

Also, the typical homeowner could use this thing for a few hours every year and never have one lick of trouble out of it unlike the norm with a neglected gas saw. If you let this thing set in the garage unused for 2 or 3 years it would most likely not even need the batt charged before putting it back in action.

Obviously, I am pretty happy so far. I will give it a harder work out next week clearing a bunch of 2" to 8" saplings and heavily limbed trees on the other side of a privacy fence. The trees have grown up and now block the sun so it's impossible to grow grass in that area.

 

[rayjay257]

Finally got to run most of a battery out. I'm super happy with this little saw. I am thinning the trees on the other side of the fence so I can get some more sun on the small piece of yard over there so maybe I can get some grass to grow instead of moss. That stump is about the max this saw can do and really it was too much but careful use and letting the saw work at it's own pace it was no big deal. Quite a few cuts in the 6 to 8" range. Still got a long way to go. At 63 and 20 months out from a massive GI surgery about 3 hours is it. Just happy to be out there doing man stuff.

 

[1Alpha1]

Post a bigger pic of the saw.

 

[rayjay257]

Here ya go !!

 

[1Alpha1]

Glad that you are pleased with it and gave it good reviews. Man, you did a lot of cutting with that thing.

The closest thing I have to an electric saw, is corded. It does a pretty good job, as long as you bear in mind, it's electric.

 

[Philbert]

The closest thing I have to an electric saw, is corded. It does a pretty good job, as long as you bear in mind, it's electric.

The first STIHL chainsaw (bear in mind, it's electric . . . . )

Philbert

 

[rayjay257]

Glad that you are pleased with it and gave it good reviews. Man, you did a lot of cutting with that thing.

The closest thing I have to an electric saw, is corded. It does a pretty good job, as long as you bear in mind, it's electric.

On another cordless thread one of the carver guys mentioned how crucial the small chain is and I see what he meant. A normal sized chain really holds back any electric saw.

 

[Philbert]

A normal sized chain really holds back any electric saw.

Again, it's the size of the motor, not the power source.

A number of smaller in-tree saws, and gas powered pole saws run more efficiently with smaller pitch or narrow kerf chain. The STIHL MSE250 (15 Amps) comes with full-sized 3/8 pitch chain.

Philbert

 

[rayjay257]

Again, it's the size of the motor, not the power source.

A number of smaller in-tree saws, and gas powered pole saws run more efficiently with smaller pitch or narrow kerf chain. The STIHL MSE250 (15 Amps) comes with full-sized 3/8 pitch chain.

Philbert

I should have said that a full sized chain holds back most common electric saws. When they design a saw they have to start out with a set of objectives. Weight is probably the first number they put down on paper. If light weight is desired you are instantly limited in power as there is no getting around the fact that a more powerful electric motor will be heavier than a less powerful one. Stihl's homeowner saw is a great mix of compromises. The light weight is one of the things that make this saw such a useful device especially for people with physical issues such as I have. No way I tackle topping out and felling those 2 trees if I have to use my 12 lb Stihl 010. The 14.5 lb Echo cordless?? Forget about it. The 8.5 lb electric was absolutely no problem.

One recommendation I have for prospective buyers of any of the new stuff is to buy new at a dealer. You absolutely need a good warranty of this modern stuff. There is no fixing it yourself with brushless motors and lithium batts. I can imagine that retail parts prices would make home repair not cost effective. There has been a lot of Echo 58V showing up for sale on CL at "Close Out" stores, etc. I am sure this is stuff that was returned to HD which they then auction off when they get a bunch accumulated. I am pretty certain that HD/Echo will not honor the warranty on any of the 58v stuff unless you have a HD receipt.

 

[Philbert]

In the US, most corded electric saws top out at 15 Amps, as that is a practical limit for 120V outlets and extension cords. But there is a big difference between the $30 electrics and the $300 models, just as there would be between a $50 and $300 gas chainsaw. So what holds them back, is the practical length of a cord, and the wiring of most US houses, but I have cut 16" diameter wood with them, no problem.

The cordless / battery saws are amazing, and keep changing as we watch. There were 12V and 20V battery chainsaws 20+ years ago, that could be used for light pruning tasks. The 36V+ Li-Ion class really changed battery O*P*E and it's hard to keep up, with increased battery capacities and up to 120V models now offered. I heard a report on the radio recently about Lithium glass batteries that are supposed to take another leap forward: http://www.npr.org/sections/alltech...ion-pioneer-eyes-a-new-longer-lasting-battery

But the narrow kerf stuff works on all saws. They have even been promoted for stationary woodworking machines, partially to reduce waste of expensive materials, but also because they put less strain on the motors. Improved efficiency can also be a benefit on higher power cutting tools.

My corded and battery electric chainsaws (8A to 15A) all run 3/8 low profile chain (standard Type 91 or PowerSharp). My battery pole saw runs 3/8 low profile narrow kerf chain (Oregon Type 90). My Husqvarna 353 (51.7 cc, 3.22 hp) came with and runs .325 narrow kerf (Type 95) chain. I could run standard .325, or probably 3/8 chain, but the narrow kerf gives me an advantage.

Philbert

 

[rayjay257]

I stopped at the Stihl dealer today to pick up a spare chain and in talking to the guy that sold me the cordless he said that Stihl had gone to the narrow chain on their pole saws. Makes sense.

 

[rayjay257]

This evening I was looking at the ends of the bigger pieces of wood and noticed that the cut surfaces were very smooth. Almost looks like it was done with a bandsaw.

 

[rayjay257]

Here are the replacement pics. That whole span of fence up to the greenhouse is now cleared out except for the tallest trees.

 

[Matt Hogden]

Apparently the 120 has a "Brushed" motor and the 200 pro saw has the "Brushless" motor.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[rayjay257]

It's kind of ambiguous the way they do the advertising. At first I thought all the 36V Stihls were brushless then I got to wondering because there is no mention of it in the owner's handbook. I used to fly electric RC airplanes from the days of nicads and 'can' brushed motors up until the lipo batts came on the scene and brushless motors. Brushless require some electrical magic to run whereas a brushed motor with on WOT available can be fairly simple. It's the circuitry that protects the lipo batts that is complex in the brushed motor saws.

 

[Matt Hogden]

Mate brushless speed controllers are 15 year old technology and well sorted by now. I wouldnt own anything cordless unless it was Brushless and Lithium.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Matt Hogden]

Ps, not rippin on your saw, just saying the technology is sound!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[1Alpha1]

So....if I'm in the market for a new battery-powered 1/2" cap. drill, brushless is the way to go?

That and Lithium-Ion of course.

 

[Philbert]

So....if I'm in the market for a new battery-powered 1/2" cap. drill, brushless is the way to go? That and Lithium-Ion of course.

Brushless is the current (no pun intended) cordless tool technology. It will be more efficient, and make better use of your battery power, all things equal. That said, I would not turn down a good deal on a high quality, brushed, cordless tool, from a reliable manufacturer.

Li-Ion is a battery technology, and there are many variations. Again, go with a known, reliable manufacturer.

A key thing with cordless tools, whether carpentry or O*P*E, is that the batteries can be 1/2 or more of the tool price, so most guys will choose a battery platform (many tools that use the same battery), rather than specific tools. If I was highly invested in a specific battery system, I might tolerate a slightly less efficient tool for the compatibility advantages. If you are starting from scratch, it is a different story, but still take a little time to see what other tools are in the same family.

Philbert

 

[rayjay257]

If you hook a battery to a brushed motor it runs. If you hook a battery to a brushless motor nothing happens except maybe the magic smoke comes out. The brushless motor requires some fairly expensive electronic circuitry to run. That was the point I was trying to make. Yes, the brushless is more efficient and there are different styles of motors that can be optimized for different applications but brushed motors have been around for a very long time and do the job for far cheaper.

Really, its the lithium batteries that are what make the new generation of cordless tools so much better than the old NiCad powered stuff, ALTHOUGH, I did some limbing up today up on a ladder and the tool I used was a B&D 18V NiCad powered, brushed motor sawzall with a pruning blade. I could easily handle the 4 lb sawzall whereas the 8 lb Stihl would have been impossible. Of course , a similar capacity lithium batt for that sawzall would have made the tool weigh 2 lbs.