Talk me (homeowner) into or out of new saw

[sean donato]

You really think you need to swing a saw full time for 5 years to have an idea of reliability? I repair them for comercial maintenance crews, landscapers and get work sent my way by one of the largest Stihl shops in our state.

Then you should well know the newer stuff lasts just as long as the older stuff ever did. With vast improvements, in fuel economy, vibration and air filtration. All your constant banging new equipment is 99% pure bs. There no logging crew running saws for more then 2-3 years around here, and tree trimmers/ arborist saws usually die from causes other then quality failures, and usually get turned in between 5-8 years if they make it that long. Been working on equipment way longer then you have, and have actual experience using saws in commercial settings. Outside of issues with certain models there's been little proof to convince me newer saws won't last as long as older saws.

 

[stihl sawing]

I'm a homeowner with some uncleared rural property in North Carolina. I have 3 trees in my backyard on the ground thanks to Hurricane Helene. The biggest is an oak with a diameter at the base of about 24 inches.
I have a 20 year old Stihl MS360 which does OK with smaller limbs but due to the age has some reliability and performance issues. I have researched the current Stihl saws and am tempted to buy a MS400 which I saw in a shop today with a price of about $1079 . There is a chance of getting a small reimbursement from FEMA, about $219 , because my home is in a disaster area. Yes, I know the 400 is probably more than I need, and could fall back to the MS261C , or just keep plugging away with the old saw after I work on it some more, put on a new bar and chain, and so on. Thoughts ?

The 400 should serve you well, It pulls a 25 inch bar with ease the 261 is a nice saw too.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Then you should well know the newer stuff lasts just as long as the older stuff ever did. With vast improvements, in fuel economy, vibration and air filtration. All your constant banging new equipment is 99% pure bs. There no logging crew running saws for more then 2-3 years around here, and tree trimmers/ arborist saws usually die from causes other then quality failures, and usually get turned in between 5-8 years if they make it that long. Been working on equipment way longer then you have, and have actual experience using saws in commercial settings. Outside of issues with certain models there's been little proof to convince me newer saws won't last as long as older saws.

The same things that apply here, apply to the 500i, 462’s and your beloved 400. Run what you want, but you’re kidding yourself if you think newer is better in reliability, strength and longevity. If you care to look inside a 500i you’d see just how terrible the standards the pistons are made to. I’ve seen 661 cylinders have overhanging plating on the intake and exhaust. The 500i air filter is terrible with people having to modify them just to stop fines and springs so loose that people sell upgrade spring kits. The top cover vibrates loose and can’t be tightened and the air filter cover quickly loosens too. Side covers are cracking left right and centre. The 462 had a cylinder, case and piston change shortly after release, reports of cases cracking.
The magnesium piston concept on the 400 lasted what, a few years, that model has already been superseeded… and If you don’t let the modern m/tronic saw’s idle for long enough after cutting, it won’t restart, it has to calibrate itself… I like Stihl, but I know crap when I see it and things aren’t getting better imo.

 

[SimianSawyer]

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If I'm not hijacking the thread by asking; I loath most new stuff in general (battery operated tools being one big exception) and while I'm not looking to argue about old vs new, I'm curious if you're aware of any modern exceptions to the build quality issues noted in the video. I have an MS261 (no mtronic) and a new Echo CS-355T on the way. I also have an old Stihl 011AVT that I'm super fond of, but can't get to run. Considering the market of the day for the 011, I don't think there's anything comparable, price wise today, to its build quality - it's a tough little gremlin. Again, I could be delusional, but I love old tools, especially 'old' saws. The new stuff, subjective or not, does seem cheap in comparison. And the autonomous carburetor stuff infuriates me too. The kitchen is one thing, but I don't want a dadgum nanny in my saw.

 

[Hermio]

Saws run about forever with proper care and proper fuel and oil ratio's. Me, I prefer canned fuel but then I don't run them everyday either. My 45+ year old 028 runs just fine but it needs the isolastic rubbers replaced which I just ordered and will install. Rubber does deteriorate after so many years, like fuel and impulse lines do (did those last year).

I like having at least 2 saws on the ready in case I do something stupid and need to cut a stuck saw out of a pinch.

If I were you, I'd get an Echo and keep what you have. Echo's are quality, Japanese designed saws, I have 2 myself and I'll never buy another overpriced Stihl.

I don't consider any medium size saw to be a major purchase, nit like an overpriced car or truck.

Whatever you get, buy an extra loop so when the one on the saw gets dull you can change it out and keep cutting and learn how to PROPERLY dress a dull loop and set the rakers as well.

There is nothing worse than pushing a dull loop and it's hard on the powerhead as well.

I take my Pferd 2 in 1 sharpener with me. I can dress up the cutters in about 5 minutes. Easier for me than changing a chain.

 

[diver64]

But I don't really see the need for 2 gas saws

You, sir are fake news.

 

[Chainsaw Pete]

I would never, ever tell someone not to buy another tool. However, you have not told us how much you think you will be using your new saw (if you keep it). Now that you have it, do you think it is light enough for hours of use? I've got a Stihl MS250 and an MS311 with 18" and 20" bars. I've used them to take down maybe a dozen trees in our back yard (it was overgrown when we bought the property), a bunch of trees at a shooting club I belong to, and to clear out downed trees for friends. Last week I spent the day at a friend's farm splitting wood and taking down a couple of trees. These get bucked into 16" chunks for splitting. He has another 4 or 5 trees in the 75' range to down and buck up. These saws will outlast me. I've had to saw some logs from both sides with the 311 because the 20" bar is not long enough. All in all, while I think I want a bigger saw to replace my not running 042AV, I really have no need for a bigger, heavier, tool.

Answer this, which would be more useful you now, a thousand bucks or the saw?

I admit I'd like to have a saw like the one pictured below. But I also know I'm never going to own one.

 

[mike.scopp]

The 400 is fantastic I put a lot of hours on one last year and loved it. I sold it to my boss as a fleet saw and bought a 500 and a 261 for this year. I still miss that 400 a bit though, mean saw.

 

[Michael E]

I admit I'd like to have a saw like the one pictured below.

Interesting choice. Most people seem to compensate by buying a big pickup truck.

Sorry.

 

[Chainsaw Pete]

Interesting choice. Most people seem to compensate by buying a big pickup truck.

Sorry.

Guarantee that you could buy more than 20 of those saws for the price of a pickup today.

 

[PapaWhitebeard]

500I gets my vote. Buy once, cry once. Like Hermio wrote, use it, take care of it, and if you decide to part with it....

uh... IDK if the source you're citing is the most compelling (OP: unless you've been lurking for a while and caught the thread on 'sawdust in the sparkplug hole killed my saw' then you'd have no way of knowing a certain not-to-be-named-by-me poster got duped by a dealer and ended up with a 500i)

That said the 500i is admittedly a VERY compelling saw... the fuel injection is making horsepower numbers that weren't possible from a saw with the same displacement in years past... and in a much lighter package...

As for me, if I'm looking for big power I'd rather get it from displacement. In ~5 more years I'll trust the "new" fuel injection they're running on that saw (its not that new but I'm a grumpy old man)

but... (shrug) I suppose the lesson cited is another guy who ended up getting a saw he neither needed nor wanted... he bought it "because it was such a good deal"


As for YOU, OP... you got your eye on that 400? I've been eyeing it, too. If someone says the words "magnesium piston" I stand at attention. I suspect if one of those Stihl calendar ladies said it I'd get instantly hard LOL

You know what you want--go get that 400 with those FEMA dollars. Rebuild/repair your old saw because frankly, its a badazz saw, too and if it were me it would be a keeper.

Worst case you can use it when you send your new 400 out to get ported

I think the 400 is going to be an all-time classic because the "upgraded" model WON'T have the magnesium piston... plus its a different bore so people won't even be able to retrofit a magnesium piston into the new models...

Personally, every motor I've ever had (whether it was a chainsaw, motorcycle, car... whatever...) the before/after difference of getting a lightweight piston in it is NIGHT and DAY... less rotating mass causes the motor to spin up faster, smoother and once you've experienced it you're kind of ruined for life because unbalanced motors with heavy innards just don't feel the same anymore (don't get me wrong, diesel brothers... I still love the low revving slow burn of the diesel chug... enough torque to tow a house)

But if I were in your position I's already have that 400 in hand and I'd be posting about how in love with it I was... and I'd be saying "I'll be ruined, you say? RUIN ME! RUIN ME! RUIN ME!"

 

[pdqdl]

I know a guy that bought a magnesium piston 400. It lasted a few weeks, but ended up with damaged the cylinder & piston. He took it to the dealer and they did agree to do a warranty repair, so I'm guessing they couldn't prove abuse by the wrong fuel mixture or some other excuse not to repair.

Then, for reasons that make no sense at all, the saw was somehow stolen and is no longer available so as to review how well the dealer might have repaired it. Now this guy is quite the mental case, but he's done nothing else but tree work all his life, so he knows how to use a saw and presumably knows how not to burn up a saw.

I've never run the 400, but he was sure proud of it, right up until he killed it. Internet searching by me hasn't shown any related issues of unreliability about that saw, so I guess we can ignore this example as any sort of warning about this model.

 

[sean donato]

Going on 3 years with mine..... zero issues to date. One of the few "new" saws that hasn't had hardly any bad feed back or issues.

 

[norbert77]

I bought a echo 355T for making trails, put on it a 16" bar, and I love that thing. Small or large, I use it for all. I have a echo 450 I bought for big jobs, it rarely gets taken out. Yes the 450 would cut faster, but the 355 is so much lighter and better balanced. If I had to clean up after a storm it's the 355t, then the 450 for making firewood.

 

[Wyoming_Outback]

Picked up a 400 this late summer, and have some time on it, along with my 500i and buy dad's 362 (equitable to the 360, roughly). 400 is a great saw. Light, and with a 20" bar, can do a lot of stuff, and outperforms the 362 handsomely. Obviously won't keep up with my 500i, but has earned my respect with the 2.5 months I have on it. I mainly use it to limb and buck smaller stuff, and have had to double cut some Doug fir firewood while bucking that was about 25". For your needs, I can't say it's a bad choice, and could come in handy in the future for other clean up jobs.

 

[Greg Tracy]

Been cutting firewood for over 40 years. When younger I made junk run. In 2013 I bought a brand new Husqvarna 372. The old 272 ran fine yet. Still does. At the time I was thinking I really like the 372 not sure how long I would able to cut firewood. I can enjoy this chainsaw for while. And I did in 2020 I bought a new 550 was real happy with it. Had a 50 and 51 still run fine. Getting thoughts of a 592. Have no good reason to buy one. Have a 298 and 394

 

[javadog]

It is looking like I will be keeping the 400. I went back to the dealer Friday and told the guy behind the counter I wanted to return the saw, that it had not even been started and did not even have 1 particle of sawdust on it. The gist of his answer was "Nope" . I said "Well, that was a 1200 dollar mistake" and walked out . This dealership, other that Ace Hardware has like the Stihl monopoly in our town and if you aren't a huge corporate commercial operation they don't care if you live or die. After cooling off at home I called Stihl customer service and talked to a great dude named Pat who explained that the dealers can make up their own rules anyway they like. He said I could go back there, ask to speak to the owner or manager and debate the matter with them.
Based on their reputation , I doubt the result would be different.
Then I get a text from Samaritan't Purse asking if I still was interested in help. I replied "Yes" and explained the size of the trees and how I mostly wanted them limbed and the trunks bucked in to about 18 inch pieces I could split for firewood. Her reply stated they don't do anything like that , but just cut the larger sections into "manageable" pieces. What does that mean ? Manageable if you happen to have an excavator and grapple on the premises ?
Anyway, I think that means that I will be left with a lot more work with much bigger sections than I expected.
Plus, I went up to my little property Saturday and decided that I would eventually have to deal with some bigger trees there, as well.

 

[EchoShindaiwaMakitaDolmar]

Echo 7310p or "pw" can be had new sometimes for about $800, or get an Echo 620p or "pw" for under $700 regular streert price.

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

It is looking like I will be keeping the 400. I went back to the dealer Friday and told the guy behind the counter I wanted to return the saw, that it had not even been started and did not even have 1 particle of sawdust on it. The gist of his answer was "Nope" . I said "Well, that was a 1200 dollar mistake" and walked out . This dealership, other that Ace Hardware has like the Stihl monopoly in our town and if you aren't a huge corporate commercial operation they don't care if you live or die. After cooling off at home I called Stihl customer service and talked to a great dude named Pat who explained that the dealers can make up their own rules anyway they like. He said I could go back there, ask to speak to the owner or manager and debate the matter with them.
Based on their reputation , I doubt the result would be different.
Then I get a text from Samaritan't Purse asking if I still was interested in help. I replied "Yes" and explained the size of the trees and how I mostly wanted them limbed and the trunks bucked in to about 18 inch pieces I could split for firewood. Her reply stated they don't do anything like that , but just cut the larger sections into "manageable" pieces. What does that mean ? Manageable if you happen to have an excavator and grapple on the premises ?
Anyway, I think that means that I will be left with a lot more work with much bigger sections than I expected.
Plus, I went up to my little property Saturday and decided that I would eventually have to deal with some bigger trees there, as well.

Well there you go- you and the new MS400 were just meant to be.

 

[PJwoodcutter]

It is looking like I will be keeping the 400. I went back to the dealer Friday and told the guy behind the counter I wanted to return the saw, that it had not even been started and did not even have 1 particle of sawdust on it. The gist of his answer was "Nope" . I said "Well, that was a 1200 dollar mistake" and walked out . This dealership, other that Ace Hardware has like the Stihl monopoly in our town and if you aren't a huge corporate commercial operation they don't care if you live or die. After cooling off at home I called Stihl customer service and talked to a great dude named Pat who explained that the dealers can make up their own rules anyway they like. He said I could go back there, ask to speak to the owner or manager and debate the matter with them.
Based on their reputation , I doubt the result would be different.
Then I get a text from Samaritan't Purse asking if I still was interested in help. I replied "Yes" and explained the size of the trees and how I mostly wanted them limbed and the trunks bucked in to about 18 inch pieces I could split for firewood. Her reply stated they don't do anything like that , but just cut the larger sections into "manageable" pieces. What does that mean ? Manageable if you happen to have an excavator and grapple on the premises ?
Anyway, I think that means that I will be left with a lot more work with much bigger sections than I expected.
Plus, I went up to my little property Saturday and decided that I would eventually have to deal with some bigger trees there, as well.

I dont think you will regret it. You have a wonderful saw and it will keep its value, especially since its going to be discontinued and replaced with the 400.1. I think its a dumb move on Stihls part considering the MS400c has almost a cult following, at least in the states.