Anybody had a saw failure (rings, piston, cylinder, etc.) due to poor oil quality? I'm not talking about mix:ratio or octane rating - just a faulure because of cheap-o oil...
Sub Standard Oil
- Thread starter Jonny Quest
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Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
I have seen several Stihl's that failed (scored pistons/bores) in the past year due to the use of marine outboard "multi-purpose " 2 stroke oil... Is the oil "quality" bad? Nope.. just used outside of its designed temperatures etc.
It's more about using the right oil than the quality of the oil..
This is what happens...
the rest of the thread the pic belongs to is here...
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=33974
It's more about using the right oil than the quality of the oil..
This is what happens...
the rest of the thread the pic belongs to is here...
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=33974
Last edited:
Steve128
ArboristSite Operative
Oil
Usually, marine oil is cheaper than jaso/ iso-l-egd oils.
Another example of how customers save by using the cheaper products/oil.
Usually, marine oil is cheaper than jaso/ iso-l-egd oils.
Another example of how customers save by using the cheaper products/oil.
manual
Addicted to ArboristSite
Did they say what brand of two stroke multi - use oil ?
opcorn:
opcorn:
I had a bottle of Tanaka that was 18 months old. I went to the local auto parts store to buy some Mobil 1 T2. I had to go to 3 different shops before I found some.
I saw several "house brands" that made me leary. The "name brands" that were readily available were CITGO and Pennzoil. I don't want to sun sub-standard oil in a new saw.
I'll stick with the Mobil 1
I saw several "house brands" that made me leary. The "name brands" that were readily available were CITGO and Pennzoil. I don't want to sun sub-standard oil in a new saw.
I'll stick with the Mobil 1
GASoline71
Mr. Nice Guy
Read - my - lips.... Stihl synthetic...
Gary
Gary
stonykill
ArboristSite Guru
Read - my - lips.... Stihl synthetic...
Gary
I use either stihl synthetic, or husky synthetic, depends on which dealer I'm at
huskydave
Addicted to ArboristSite
Stihl or husky oil. If I can't find that my saws don't run period. The saw cannot be damaged if you spend a little extra on gas/oil. Try to filter your gas from the can it is amazing the crap that gets into jerry cans look in the bottom of yours and you will see what I mean.
Fish
Tree Freak
Saying what caused a failure is quite subjective to many variables, and
any "factory", "distributor" "tech", expert", ahole, etc, will give you an opinion.
And using the customer's "input" muddies the water even more, as they are desperately trying to claim warranty.
Attending many schools and updates, the rep will just say, "bad gas", and
let the subject drop, which is a self serving diagnosis, as it puts the blame
on the customer, and it usually is. I work on a saw or mower, and the
goomer goes home and puts last years fuel in it, then comes back all indignant, as you/we just worked on it, and it will not run.
Most times, just dumping out the old gas and restarting will bring back peace
in the valley, but sometimes, the carb has to be "rebuilt" again, which just
means disassembly, blowing the crap out and reassembly.
But when one comes in that has a piston melted, some want a definitive
"prognosis", so they can affix blame. No one here can definitely affix blame/failure, especially to blame oil quality. As that would be silly, as the
blame would surely be elsewhere.
Sorry to pee on the parade, but I am just slaphappy from dealing with
"always right" customers, etc.
To just say "use synthetic" is useless, silly, etc.
any "factory", "distributor" "tech", expert", ahole, etc, will give you an opinion.
And using the customer's "input" muddies the water even more, as they are desperately trying to claim warranty.
Attending many schools and updates, the rep will just say, "bad gas", and
let the subject drop, which is a self serving diagnosis, as it puts the blame
on the customer, and it usually is. I work on a saw or mower, and the
goomer goes home and puts last years fuel in it, then comes back all indignant, as you/we just worked on it, and it will not run.
Most times, just dumping out the old gas and restarting will bring back peace
in the valley, but sometimes, the carb has to be "rebuilt" again, which just
means disassembly, blowing the crap out and reassembly.
But when one comes in that has a piston melted, some want a definitive
"prognosis", so they can affix blame. No one here can definitely affix blame/failure, especially to blame oil quality. As that would be silly, as the
blame would surely be elsewhere.
Sorry to pee on the parade, but I am just slaphappy from dealing with
"always right" customers, etc.
To just say "use synthetic" is useless, silly, etc.
GASoline71
Mr. Nice Guy
You ain't peein' on nobody's parade dude... Before I used Stihl synthetic... I used Stihl dino-oil. Mixed at the same ratio I use right now. No failures in all the years i have been runnin' saws.
People that use outboard crap and other cheap oil in their saws keep the... "factory", "distributor" "tech", expert", ahole, etc. in business.:bang:
Gary
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
I understand where Fish is coming from..
Clean out the filthy gas, rebuild the carb, hand it back to the customer who's so concerned about the price that he won't listen to the speech about premium gas, good oil etc.. A week later it's back.... the guy's mad 'cos "it's worse than the first time he brought it in"... tip out some more sludge from the tank... new filter.. more work.. tell him again to GET RID OF THE GAS AND THE GAS CAN HE'S BEEN USING FOR 30 years...
Next customer... and so it will continue thoughout the spring...
I had one guy do it three times to me... Made him bring his rusty gas can in the third time...
Another guy was using bar oil, but he got the 50:1 part right...
Clean out the filthy gas, rebuild the carb, hand it back to the customer who's so concerned about the price that he won't listen to the speech about premium gas, good oil etc.. A week later it's back.... the guy's mad 'cos "it's worse than the first time he brought it in"... tip out some more sludge from the tank... new filter.. more work.. tell him again to GET RID OF THE GAS AND THE GAS CAN HE'S BEEN USING FOR 30 years...
Next customer... and so it will continue thoughout the spring...
I had one guy do it three times to me... Made him bring his rusty gas can in the third time...
Another guy was using bar oil, but he got the 50:1 part right...
GASoline71
Mr. Nice Guy
Fish
Tree Freak
My point is, how can one truly "declare", "define", "cause of death", any
failure, and so confidently put the blame on "outboard" or any oil. The
customer is usually hiding something, the dist/factory just says bad gas, and
the truth is usually somewhere in there. Old gas, dirty air filter, lean seizure
due to many factors, all fill in the mix. To try to blame an oil/quality/ etc
is kind of bold, as the blame is usually elsewhere, and no one can devine
the truth, as "truth" is subjective to "those discussing it", and those that
have to accept culpability and "pay" for it, the moron that used last years gas and used the saw when it was running poorly, until it finally seized, etc.
To sit here and pat each other on the back and say "outboard oilmix" was the cause/evil would be silly, but easy to do. I work on quality stuff daily
and what really happened to a unit is a blend of what the customer says/what the factory says/ and something in the middle. To throw "synthetic" into the discussion just mixes it up more.
Just as it is as silly to blame engine failures on octane, as that is another
non-issue here in the states. Many members take that one up as their
flagship "root of all evil/failures and beat that horse till it stops kickin too.
But I digress.......................................
evil
failure, and so confidently put the blame on "outboard" or any oil. The
customer is usually hiding something, the dist/factory just says bad gas, and
the truth is usually somewhere in there. Old gas, dirty air filter, lean seizure
due to many factors, all fill in the mix. To try to blame an oil/quality/ etc
is kind of bold, as the blame is usually elsewhere, and no one can devine
the truth, as "truth" is subjective to "those discussing it", and those that
have to accept culpability and "pay" for it, the moron that used last years gas and used the saw when it was running poorly, until it finally seized, etc.
To sit here and pat each other on the back and say "outboard oilmix" was the cause/evil would be silly, but easy to do. I work on quality stuff daily
and what really happened to a unit is a blend of what the customer says/what the factory says/ and something in the middle. To throw "synthetic" into the discussion just mixes it up more.
Just as it is as silly to blame engine failures on octane, as that is another
non-issue here in the states. Many members take that one up as their
flagship "root of all evil/failures and beat that horse till it stops kickin too.
But I digress.......................................
evil
GASoline71
Mr. Nice Guy
I'll let you know when one of my saws craps out from oil related problems...
...but it's gonna take a loooooooong time...
Gary
...but it's gonna take a loooooooong time...
Gary
Fish
Tree Freak
Evil Fish,
I like it.
I like it.
GASoline71
Mr. Nice Guy
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Sh1t stirrer!!!
Gary
Sh1t stirrer!!!
Gary
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
Great posts evil one... I'd rep ya, but I'm out and you don't play that game anyhow
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
I'll let you know when one of my saws craps out from oil related problems...
...but it's gonna take a loooooooong time...
Gary
Now you've gone and done it,,..
back to oil
Hey, Im an arborist so I never got into this befor, never had to, but now its my saws and im still learning, agian. I had to use the stuff in the blue jar T-2,t-3 or somthing for use in ect. and felt real bad using it, so made sure to have a case on hand at all times, and am using the catalog brand, am I or did I wreck my saws.
Hey, Im an arborist so I never got into this befor, never had to, but now its my saws and im still learning, agian. I had to use the stuff in the blue jar T-2,t-3 or somthing for use in ect. and felt real bad using it, so made sure to have a case on hand at all times, and am using the catalog brand, am I or did I wreck my saws.
I'll have to disagree with the fish man on this one. There is a whole science involved with failure analysis. With research, trained techs can examine oil residue, signs of detonation, scoring, heat generation and transfer, and countless other evidence on a failed engine and come up with most likely or definitive root cause of failure.
To just throw ones hands up in the and declare "it just blowed up!" is even more silly than examining parts, residue and other evidence and deducing cause of death. Howinell do you think the manufacturers know how to correct issues (design flaws) in development stage without Root Cause Analysis? Is RCA impossible once an engine goes into production? Silly is right.
Someone needs to watch more CSI...
To just throw ones hands up in the and declare "it just blowed up!" is even more silly than examining parts, residue and other evidence and deducing cause of death. Howinell do you think the manufacturers know how to correct issues (design flaws) in development stage without Root Cause Analysis? Is RCA impossible once an engine goes into production? Silly is right.
Someone needs to watch more CSI...
