Swedish milling, then and now

[treeslayer2003]

in other words, people accept crap, so crap is what they get................yea, that makes sense.

 

[Brush Ape]

in other words, people accept crap, so crap is what they get................yea, that makes sense.

I'd like to receive and attempt to mill 1/10,000,000th of the high quality timber gone in USFS prescribed burns in one year. You could build a city. Craftsmen on my project wouldn't be relegated to using scrap for material either.

-edit sorry that didn't have nuthin' to do with Swedish milling then or now.

 

[Gologit]

I'd like to receive and attempt to mill 1/10,000,000th of the high quality timber gone in USFS prescribed burns in one year. You could build a city.

High quality timber gone in USFS prescribed burns? Not as a rule. Darn seldom as a matter of fact. Maybe you could cite some specific examples? There are several people on here who are very knowledgeable about prescribed burns. They'd probably be interested in your facts. If you have any.

There's often quite a bit of USFS timber that doesn't get harvested after a forest fire. Have you confused prescribed burns with wildfires?

 

[Brush Ape]

Yup you're right. I'll take 1/10,000th of it then. Thanks for taking me off ignore old chum.

High quality timber gone in USFS prescribed burns? Not as a rule. Darn seldom as a matter of fact. Maybe you could cite some specific examples? There are several people on here who are very knowledgeable about prescribed burns. They'd probably be interested in your facts. If you have any.

There's often quite a bit of USFS timber that doesn't get harvested after a forest fire. Have you confused prescribed burns with wildfires?

 

[Gologit]

Yup. But I'll take 1/10,000th of it then. Thanks for taking me off ignore old chum.

I took you off IGNORE long enough to see that you're still as much of a fatuous ignoramus as you've always been. I thought that maybe, just once, you would post something in the F&L section that had some useful content or even a smidgen of helpful information. I should have known better.
Back on IGNORE for you.

 

[Brush Ape]

I took you off IGNORE long enough to see that you're still as much of a fatuous ignoramus as you've always been. I thought that maybe, just once, you would post something in the F&L section that had some useful content or even a smidgen of helpful information. I should have known better.
Back on IGNORE for you.

Well until next time don't blow a head gasket.

 

[slowp]

High quality timber gone in USFS prescribed burns? Not as a rule. Darn seldom as a matter of fact. Maybe you could cite some specific examples? There are several people on here who are very knowledgeable about prescribed burns. They'd probably be interested in your facts. If you have any.

There's often quite a bit of USFS timber that doesn't get harvested after a forest fire. Have you confused prescribed burns with wildfires?

He's on my ignore, so I'll keep it that way.

 

[Brush Ape]

There are several people on here who are very knowledgeable about prescribed burns.

He's blah blah.

• In 2012, wildfires burned 9.3 million acres, while the U.S. Forest Service only harvested approximately 200,000 acres. This means that 44 times as many acres burned as were responsibility harvested. The burned areas were not allowed to be salvaged.

And that was on a good year. So if you done it or somebody else did, what's the difference. Give me nine million acres of sticks to manage next time. You all keep dropping the ball.

lol. Strike one Gologit. Arson/"prescribed" burn (wildfire) what have you are related in more than one way. Many people cannot handle the responsibility or deal with the consequences implied with, "prescription".

Choose vitamins.

My main error was in assuming I could harvest the aforementioned sticks before the torch showed up. Afterward would be a nasty job, but I still want to build a city: Reagan Harbour, Washington 86753-09.

If there's any lumber leftover, I'll build Bush Bluff. You and slowp can have a free getaway at the Hotel Nixon anytime. Just call, ROFL.

 

[slowp]

Ok, I unignored you and I have no idea where you are getting your info. Of course, wildfires burn timber. That's always been the case. Of course, an escaped prescribed burn will burn timber. What is your point?

Controlled burns do not "burn high quality timber". Slash piles that are burned definitely do not have "high quality timber" in them. During the timber sale process that has been removed.

What is your information source? I refer to the 2400-6 (T) Timber Sale Contract. Read it. It'll take a while. Look at the A section. I believe A6. Otherwise quit posting inaccurate information. I'm thinking you are still merely a troll.

 

[Brush Ape]

He's on my ignore, so I'll keep it that way.

Ok, I unignored you.......

lol. What a difference a night's sleep makes.

..........and I have no idea where you are getting your info. Of course, wildfires burn timber. That's always been the case. Of course, an escaped prescribed burn will burn timber. What is your point?

Controlled burns do not "burn high quality timber".

With the amount of regulation involved, you can't have it both ways. If you neglect to harvest 9 million acres of timber before a wildfire, you can't have it either way.

What is your information source?

U.S. House of Representitives Commitee on Natural Resources

I'm thinking you are still merely a troll.

Albeit a damn good one.

At least you came out from beneath your rock long enough to retract your word, kick the chessboard and hurl insults. Thanks, Patty.

It doesn't make sense to me either. I don't mean to sound like some kind of expert here. I'm not. I don't know much about sawmills and I sure don't know much about all the economics involved.

Well then, you haven't calibrated frequency drives and limit switches, programmed logic controllers, replaced nuclear-based level sensors in confined spaces like pulp tanks, run 3" rigid, hoisted motor control switchgear through a ceiling and moved them across a roof, pulled 600 mil in cable trays, welded strut, or terminated fiber optics at any major modern U.S. sawmills then. I have.

And you probably haven't bought any timber.

I took you off IGNORE long enough to see that you're still as much of a fatuous ignoramus as you've always been.

Did I eat enchiladas? That's unfair, I don't even have gas.

I thought that maybe, just once, you would post something in the F&L section that had some useful content or even a smidgen of helpful information. I should have known better.

Back on IGNORE for you.

Empty threats, Bob.

Aside from the fact that you drive a jap truck and I drive a Dodge, we have a lot more in common than you like to admit. We would see eye to eye more often if you didn't always have to take the milk crate you was standing on back to the dairy supply as it belongs to them.

Keith

 

[slowp]

Where is this Natural Resources committee report?

Do you even know the difference between prescribed burns and wildfires?

I've worked on both. You? I've also worked a bit making sure "highly valuable" timber was taken to the mill. You? Back up your claims. Are you a forester? Timber cruiser? Know what a timber cruiser is?

Here is the standard timber sale contract.
http://www.fs.fed.us/forestmanagement/documents/contracts/!FS-2400-6_Division_B_6-06.pdf

 

[treeslayer2003]

ape, you confuse the crap outta me...........about one sentence out of 20 makes sense, then you go on about sillyness.......

i think you probably do know some thing about what your talking about, but the BS gets in the way........i'm not jabbing at you, just trying to make sense out of what you say.

so to clear up at least one thing i'm stuck on, your saying that it costs more to produce lumber here because of the high tech systems the mills use now?
if that is the case then maybe we use to much tech and not enough common sense.

 

[Brush Ape]

so to clear up at least one thing i'm stuck on, your saying that it costs more to produce lumber here because of the high tech systems the mills use now?
if that is the case then maybe we use to much tech and not enough common sense.

We use not enough tech or common sense. I'm for uniformity of manufacture, consistent grading, JIT delivery/locally sourced and domestically produced goods, and efficient motion. All them things are better represented by machines (better known as high tech systems) than people. Did you see the guy watching TV and his computer screen on the Swedish video? Haha. Guess what, Swede, at Brush Ape Lumber you can go pick up a broom.

Stockpiles of goods awaiting their demand is nothing but a logjam. (Requiring a subsidy to sit on? #^&* that.) I don't think it costs more here to produce lumber at all. Mother nature really does all that in the first place. It costs more to mismanage the flow of goods. That's what happens without a well-structured system of de-centralized management like the form that slowp posted a link to would indicate. If you have to go to the top like that to get answers, you will pay the cost then and everyone downstream will also pay.

Just previous to the consumer, the craftsman is the end user. Too many people are getting their fingers in the craftsman's pie before he takes a slice, that's all. One reason labor is so expensive is to compensate for the loss incurred in the cost of material. Growth is slowed from the top down as what is most indicative of growth in the U.S.? Housing sales. And unfortunately, that's inherent of the old school way.

 

[northmanlogging]

Ok, so I've mostly stayed out of this pissing contest...

Last time I bought lumber, it came from 60 miles from me. Last time I bought ceder for decking I wondered if I'm the one that fell that tree, as it came from morton, most ceder here is eventually sent to morton.

SO... its perfectly viable for locale mills to supply locale markets, And if you believe for one gods damned minute that any of these folks are federally subsidized you should maybe put your foil hat back on. The FS is technically subsidized, only because its a federal entity, however they where supposed to get their funding solely from logging and timber sales.

Logging companies, Mills, forest owners do not get any subsidies, some forest owners get tax breaks on the state level, far from a government handout, If they did I'd be in line for a nice fat check (not really but the thought is nice).

And as far as mills not being productive enough in the states? Darringtons Hampton mill has had the most board feet run through it in the last 10 years then the previous 100, largely on one shift.

As far is imports, Meh, its cheaper for third world countries to make **** products and ship them here then it is for americans to build quality products, and sell them at home, this has more to do with politics then economy, mostly since america's import tariffs are low or nonexistant, which they should not be. It cost a member here $300 to have a clapped out basket case saw sent to Scotland, to send it back would cost nothing but shipping.

 

[slowp]

Sierra Pacific bought a mill in Centralia that is mostly mechanized. I heard, when it opened, that only about 7 or 8 people were needed to control the machines. But, more than that were required to maintain the machinery. The log yard is small so they have to keep trucks coming in.

It caught on fire the other day, but sounds like not much burned.

 

[Trx250r180]

Much more rewarding to mill your own lumber ,stuff at the lumber store is ugly

 

[treeslayer2003]

Ok, so I've mostly stayed out of this pissing contest...



As far is imports, Meh, its cheaper for third world countries to make **** products and ship them here then it is for americans to build quality products, and sell them at home, this has more to do with politics then economy, mostly since america's import tariffs are low or nonexistant, which they should not be. It cost a member here $300 to have a clapped out basket case saw sent to Scotland, to send it back would cost nothing but shipping.

you are 100% right on this and it is what makes me angry.
on the scotland thing, another member got away for 1/3 that..........

 

[Torch68]

In the UK, utilities are receiving subsidies to meet the European Union's 2020 renewable energy target. Supposedly they are increasing imports of wood from the South-eastern U.S. and with the British Pound buying 1.6615 Dollars a cheap solution that is just across the pond.

 

[jwilly]

The last house I framed before getting out of contracting was built with Weyerhaeuser Framer Series lumber. It is SYP that is graded by computer, crowns are marked and it has a stay straight warranty. Used it for floor joists and rafters and it was a pleasure to work with, just a little heavier than SPF or DF, moving 24' 2x12s was an old man and a helper operation.

Radiata Pine has put a hurting on the EWP market and it gets shipped from Australia and New Zealand. The mill we sell our white pine to locally saws it and then sends it to Canada where it gets turned into window and door parts and gets sent back to the US.

I had some problems with some doors on the last job that required a tech rep from the company to come to the job and fix. I asked him what happened to the quality and he replied all the casing components were milled in China and sent back to the US for assembly.

I guess I just don't understand the economics of it all.

 

[Brush Ape]

When we cut veneer logs, they are exported and peeled on the boat. Then they are pasted to crappy furniture made of mdf and shipped back here.