Tame my saw, please!

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psu1xj

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Hi! (First post.)

I have an odd question: I am a timberframer and we use a lot of straight-from-the-mill material -- mostly white oak. Last year we bought an Echo CS670 to help buck up timbers and rough out joints. Can't say enough good stuff about the saw. We run a 24" bar (way more than we need, really) with a 3/8 pitch chain.

Here's the odd question: recently I bought a PFERD sharpening set-up that holds a 7/32" round file and a flat mill file in the proper orientation to sharpen the tooth and lower the depth stop at the same time. Now, I sharpen things by hand all day every day in order to be able to do the work I do. I've gotten to be pretty decent at sharpening edges, including a pair of chain-mortising machines we use that have 1" wide saw chains, but I haven't tackled standard chain saws before now.

After two complete sharpening passes (I did the whole job a second time, just to make sure I was getting it right), and checking with a light to make sure I was keening up all the cutting edges, I now have a chain which is soooo aggressive that it's not really optimal for the job I need it to do! Yes, the saw will race through an oak 8"x10" in 4 seconds, but it grabs, bucks, can even bog the saw down if I let it dig, and it splits out the surface of the timber way worse than before -- and this can be a big deal for me.

So, I'm guessing the PFERD device cuts the depth stops way too low for my needs. Should I switch to hand filing without the device, and set the depth stops by feeler guage? Is there a "hardwoods" depth setting which is less aggressive than perhaps a softwoods or "high-speed-felling" depth setting would be?

Many thanks!

-Sam
 
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rupedoggy said:
Sounds like the stops are too far down. Don't go below .025 for your work. What is the setting now?
I can't really say. I'll have to measure with feeler guages. We really could use the smoothest, cleanest possible cut -- would even less than .025" be better?

rupedoggy said:
(BTW a chain like that doesn't cut faster) Mike
I see your point, I think, but we had had a few encounters with the concrete shop floor ... it *is* faster with sharp teeth! ;)

Thanks!

-Sam
 
psu1xj said:
I'll have to measure with feeler guages. We really could use the smoothest, cleanest possible cut -- would even less than .025" be better?

I think that .025" is fine for providing a good clean cut, though others may know more about the best tricks for getting a perfectly smooth cut.

You may also wish to get a shorter bar setup than your 24", as I have found that control and finesse - which leads to good, smooth cuts - is easier when the saw is a bit engine-heavy, at least for me, anyway.
 
Stops?, the proper term is raker. And it does sound like your rakers are too low, 25 thou is right like the others said. You don't need any guides to file chainsaws, see what happened already, free hand, you can do whatever you want.
 
Actually the proper term is depth gauge. The term raker is from the cross-cut saw days where the function of the raker was to pull the shavings from the cutter out of the kerf. On a chainsaw chain, while the depth gauge may clear chips out of the kerf, it's primary function is to limit the depth that the cutter can sink into the wood.

By the way, I call them rakers too because it's just easier to say:D
 
RMihalik, thanks for beating me to it. I was going to suggest he was in error about "proper terminology".
The smoothest cutting is a full house or "beam" chain. Baileys is a sponser here and I think they may have some. If not then send me an Email. Mike
 
Wrong? damn, beat me like a redheaded stepchild. Now another controversy, I only know two types of chain, skip and full house, but I have been told there are more, the more teeth and the higher the rakers the smoother the cut, yes.
 
Hey!

Thanks, guys! I didn't use the term "rakers" because I *wanted* to call them rakers because that's what they reminded me of -- but, being familliar with crosscut saw blades of various kinds I knew what rakers do, and they aren't depth guages. Ha! I got to start an arguement with my first post. Sorry 'bout that!

I don't really need the *smoothest of all possible cuts* -- just better than I've got right now. Currently, this chain is splitting out splinters along the sides of the kerf on the exit side that can be 2" long sometimes, which can mar the surface of a timber that will be visible. I can pre-score the finished shoulders of the cut with a skill saw to keep the splinters from running that far, but that is a time-consuming extra step.

Sometimes I'd like to drop back to a shorter bar, but we also do some ripping cuts while roughing out long joints and the longer bar can sometimes help there.

Looks like I should stick to hand-held files and get a 0.025" sharpening guage for the "rakers." That will help a lot. I can probably get the guys to cut some more concrete with it to bring the teeth back down to 0.025" above the rakers! :laugh:

Any tricks I should know in going to a full-house/beam chain?

Thanks!

-Sam
 
Wow! SO that chain has no (don't know the right term) idlers? skips between cutting teeth. That would reduce the amount of wood each tooth is grabbing, I suppose.

I'd love to try various kinds of saw chain, but aside from getting the right pitch (distance between rivets, correct?) I don't know what I'm ordering. Like, if I look at Bailey's site I see all kinds of pitches and "micro" or "pico" and such things that I don't understand. Their saw chain selector function doesn't go up to that size for the Echos, so I can't work backwards and figure it out myself!

So, it seems I need to know a bit more about types/sizes/assembly of saw chain. Is there a good source of this info available on the web?

What is involved in making your own loops? Is it simple, cheap, and easy, or is a basic user never really going to need to worry about that?

I bought a chain from the landscaping and arborist shop where I bought the saw last year. They sold me a Stihl brand chain (old one was Oregon) that has anti-kickback spurs on the "idler" links (the non-cutting links, whatever they're supposed to be called) that rise up a bit as the chain runs around the nose. Obviously that's to reduce the bite in case of a tip contact and keep down the kickback. I've not seen those listed anywhere else, though, and always try to follow safe cutting procedures (and the chain brake works great) so I've never had a bad kickback. Should I avoid this feature for some reason, or appreciate it?

Many thanks, again!

-Sam
 
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Wow I guess I keep forgetting that there are all levels of experience visiting on this forum. Most on here know all the chain sizes because of experience and usage. I don't know if this will help and it is bound to have some mistakes (I am covering only frequently encountered types) but it's worth what you are paying for it:
Chain pitch (size, measure three rivets and divide by two):
1/4, .325, 3/8 (and mini 3/8), .404 and 1/2"

Chain gage (thickness of the drive link, that fits bar groove):
.050, .058, .063" Numbers stamped on the drive link are Mfg. ID for that size. (for instance Oregon is 72, 73, or 75)

Tooth spacing (number of teeth {cutters} per driver):
One tooth per driver is Full house, One tooth every other driver is full compliment, One tooth every three drivers is full skip, semi skip is a combination of the last two (tooth, space, tooth two spaces, tooth, etc).

The most common tooth types are chisel (square) and round ground chisel, the other is round ground round (chipper).

The anti-kick back chains are just bumpers in the sequence to reduce the saw bar jumping upward when touching the tip to something at the wrong angle. There are several types of these. Good for home owners and occasional users. Production types seem to shy away from them because of the slight reduction in cutting speed for most types.

These are the things I have learned over the years. Feel free to correct my mistakes or add missing information as you see fit. Mike
 
Surefire saw tamer

I thought I should share a couple of pictures of the chain that was on a saw I just bought. I reckon sharpening like this should tame any saw and make sure it doesn't shoot through the cut while you aren't looking:hmm3grin2orange:

Advantages of this method of sharpening are:

No training required.

Any old file will do - no need to be round.

Less PPE needed.

Great for hourly paid work.

One sharpening will last for years.

I'm sure there are more - over to you!

Big feller



Apologies if the pictures aren't shown - I have uploaded them but can't see a reference in the preview.

If not, can someone tell me what I should have done?
 
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One thing I would add to the discussion is that as you file a raker on a saw chain it gets a flat profile. I was taught that once you reduce the raker to the gap you're looking for you go around again and angle the front of the raker (return the shark-fin profile) to produce a smoother cutting saw chain. Anyone else do this extra step?
--pigwot
 
Yes, I round it a bit, makes sense to try and keep the raker profile the same. Would like to add to Rupedoggys talk about the "safety" chains, they are slower but the biggest pita about them is that after you file a few times you have to file the dumbass "safety" bump along with the raker.
 
pigwot said:
... Anyone else do this extra step?
--pigwot
Yes and no - I use the single tooth raker guides from E-lux (part of the combo with roller guide, and also available loose).
When using these, the raker become ramped, and no extra filing is necessary.:biggrinbounce2:

Also, when using these, the rakers are adjused for each individual tooth, not to an average of several teeth.;)
 
Got it!

Got my 18" bar and full comp chain from Bailey's today! Will try it out tomorrow and post a report!
 
Hi!

Mounted the bar and chain today and did a little work with it! I'm very impressed! I can't use the finished cut for any visible surfaces, but it can be functionally accurate when cutting to a line, and gives a very smooth, no-surprises cut with very little wiggle to the kerf.

NOW, now that I like this kind of chain, I've bought all but about 40 of the drive links that Bailey's had left. Where else in the world am I going to get full-comp chain? SOMEBODY has to still produce it?

Thanks to all who advised and assisted!
 

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