Tandem falling

[northmanlogging]

I like em shoulder high, easier on my back + I can really see the chips getting in my eyes that way...

Two chains, just show the damn video so we can all point and laugh, that's half the fun!

 

[bitzer]

Riddle me this, hardwood veneer guys: would you really sacrifice a handful of board-feet on the butt log for the volume in the whole rest of the tree? If you just cut a stump with a good face and good holding wood, you can put it where you want it with minimum waste over the whole tree, versus saving MAYBE a few bf per stump, when you consider that ~13 1/2 inches diameter = 1 bf. Let's assume $1000/Mbf. A Humboldt on a 12" high stump (from high side ground level) gives you more than adequate control and on a 24" tree will account for no more than 40 bf. Why risk losing all of the secondary product value over 40 bucks? Good falling practices just make sense. Maximizing veneer volume at the expense of all other utilization seems short-sighted and wasteful to me.

You can get a hell of a lot more wood on the ground when you bring the stump up a little as opposed to diggin in the dirt. What they think they're saving in board inches they are losing in board feet everyday. Just silly to me. When making randoms do I very rarely run into a situation where I lose length at the end of a stem because my stump was too high. Its just this ####### mentality that's been drilled into everyone's heads for so many years.

 

[bitzer]

4x4- I know you are getting paid by the day so you are kind of stuck doing what the boss wants regardless of how ridiculous. That's pretty much the norm up here to. Flush cut em. Just dumb.


Two chains- Are you getting paid by the day/hour/thousand? How you are paid will make a huge difference in how you cut or how you are expected to cut.

I get paid by volume. Me, myself, and I.

 

[Gologit]

4x4- I know you are getting paid by the day so you are kind of stuck doing what the boss wants regardless of how ridiculous. That's pretty much the norm up here to. Flush cut em. Just dumb.


Two chains- Are you getting paid by the day/hour/thousand? How you are paid will make a huge difference in how you cut or how you are expected to cut.

I get paid by volume. Me, myself, and I.

I remember a couple of years ago and you wanting to go logging. Now you're doing it...and good on ya for making it happen.

What do you think of it so far?

 

[bitzer]

I remember a couple of years ago and you wanting to go logging. Now you're doing it...and good on ya for making it happen.

What do you think of it so far?

I wonder what took me so long to get my #### together. Seriously, I make pretty decent money, love my job, and its pretty damn fun telling people what I do for a living. Logging is not really associated with where I live, but its where the big timber is at. My forwarder is more than half paid for and I plan to call it mine by the end of the year. Also when things dry out I'm throwing a crew together. I plan on hand-cutting for as long as I can and eventually hop in a harvester and move my arms back and forth all day. So the general feeling is that I can't get enough of it! Now if that damn rain would just stop! Another 2-3 inches on top of last weeks 2-3 inches right after break up. Man do I love talking timber and being out there though.

 

[madhatte]

You can get a hell of a lot more wood on the ground when you bring the stump up a little as opposed to diggin in the dirt. What they think they're saving in board inches they are losing in board feet everyday.

This is a thing I've seen more times than I care to count. "KNOWS RIGHT ANSWER WHEN GIVEN IT" should be a requirement for entry in any business... if a better way comes along, holding on to "how we've always done it" just because should only be allowed after honestly assessing new methods. If these new methods fail on their own merits, well, then, back to business as usual. If they succeed? Adapt, improvise, overcome, carry the hell on more efficiently.

 

[woodchuck357]

Everyone I ever worked with would be ashamed to be seen with me

if I ever dropped a tree with such a miserable excuse for a notch!

4X4, bet his head would explode with this one.

 

[RandyMac]

if I ever dropped a tree with such a miserable excuse for a notch!

you tryin' to be funny?

 

[madhatte]

you tryin' to be funny?

I honestly hope he is, because that's a pretty ignorant statement he made there. There are these strange things called "Circumstances" which have the nasty habit of rending "null and void" any thing that you know to be "true". That "miserable excuse for a notch" might be a terrible waste of materials and a hazard to equipment in a 50-year-old hardwood stand in the Ozarks, but is often a very solid compromise between safety and utilization in Coastal forests from CA to AK. One size does NOT fit all.

Oh, and what's that I see? A wall? It seems awfully close to that tree... perhaps that's why the tree is being cut? I bet the owner of the structure doesn't want the tree to hit the wall... just guessing. You know, because I'm smart like that. Perhaps the cutter knows something about the tree species and how it behaves when cut which suggets that the aforementioned "miserable excuse for a notch" is in fact a functional adaptation to the situation at hand. I don't see a bull rope, or a backhoe, or any wedges, but I do see the kerf opening. It is opening in such a way as to suggest that the stem, when it falls, will indeed miss the wall. I will admit that I am just a dumb forester but it seems to me, with my worthless book-smarts, that missing the wall is probably a good thing. Could it be that the cutter knew what he was doing, and did it on purpose?

I am willing to suspend disbelief, and give that there cutter the benefit of the doubt. It is possible that I don't know everything. It is likewise possible that if I have the decency to show folks who know things that I don't know a bit of respect, they will share their knowledge with me. I may have to buy them a beer or two in exchange for their instruction but that's a small price to pay for not having to re-invent the wheel.

Woodchuck357: folks hereabouts talk at the express risk of being called out. We are very interested in keeping each other from grave injury. Criticism here can save lives. It can also be background noise to be ignored. We are well-equipped to tell the difference. Don't be a jerk.

 

[woodchuck357]

Yeah, if I look at it just right, it's clear that notch-hinge combo

will keep that trunk in a controlled fall all the way down! Always willing to learn different ways of doing things.:rolleyes2:

 

[RandyMac]

It was a specialized, calculated face cut, used in a critical situation, probably beyond the understanding of a certain asinine flatlander.
We call it a block-cut, it is used to retain absolute control of the tree, during the fall, when the trunk contacts the stump and when the trunk leaves the stump. This is about how the tree falls and reacts to the ground, not just where it ends up.
There is no room for error with this one, powerlines close on the right, the chimney within two feet on left. Up the hill was a fire hydrant, electrical junction box, power pole and a shallow water main.

 

[bitzer]

It was a specialized, calculated face cut, used in a critical situation, probably beyond the understanding of a certain asinine flatlander.
We call it a block-cut, it is used to retain absolute control of the tree, during the fall, when the trunk contacts the stump and when the trunk leaves the stump. This is about how the tree falls and reacts to the ground, not just where it ends up.
There is no room for error with this one, powerlines close on the right, the chimney within two feet on left. Up the hill was a fire hydrant, electrical junction box, power pole and a shallow water main.

Hey Randy, what I wana know is who would plant a house so close to that tree? Haha. I bet yer guts were rollin and somthin was a little puckered when that thing started going over. Mine would have been! I've always liked that set of pics by the way. That and all of your other big timber pictures. That's the kind of stuff I see in my sleep.

 

[slowp]

Don't try falling Alder without it!

 

[roberte]

Guys before I leave this site (and it is a good forum with a shed load of good info) I will say this.....


Every day fallers overcome and adapt to the situation they find themselves in .......it part of being a good faller ........getting the job done effectively and with minimal fuss.......but most importantly SAFELY.


I don't agree vehemently with falling without a face and view that as just plain nuts .........but I will not ridicule a person over a type of notch or technique. Things can be pointed out in a manner that can be understood and discussed (I don't mean blowing smoke up some ones ass ......mine or any one else) but telling some one that a notch is a disgrace is just plain daft and unhelpful to all. I've seen that notch before (I'm not defending or sucking up) and can well see the how and why.



I may be haven't been entirely truthful lol but I have seen a hell of alot of timber felled and have cut with the big guys. I will not drop names (no need and why should I as not looking for kudos) but I'm still alive and so are they (apart from the ones who have passed naturally) I am still learning everyday in life.



I will now take my leave and wish all the best to everyone and more importantly y'all stay safe.


best Regards


G



ps. I don't post pics as learned in the military that is when crap starts flying when they misconstrued and............not understood or just plain commented on by folks that don't know. Hey it a free world lol

hey templar,
this makes it sound like your coming in stirring the pot then hitting the eject button. no sir you aint getting off that easy. see you on the next "humbolt vs overhand undercut, your thoughts" thread.
jhc

 

[woodchuck357]

Twochains, sorry about the hijack of your thread.

I have used the jump cut (box notch)when logging down spars, I should have specified the notching was poor in the context of dropping near structure or any other situation where the fall zone is small with a chance of damage if it goes a little wrong.

I see it all the time, a logger decides his cutting technique qualifies him to drop trees in an urban environment. Most of the time they are wrong. They are frequently lucky, but not always.

The side effect of my comments is to illustrate the open minds and thick skins that populate this site.

 

[roberte]

Urban or Forest makes no diff a good faller is a good faller and would suspect the faller has way more tricks in his bag than the urban version



Now how many folks do I have to pester before my account gets removed lol......I really do want it removed mods please ......I don't like loose ends

really dude....

 

[jrcat]

yes really no loose ends

Really? For for lack of expletives why? Every one gets a little ruffled under the feathers every now and then but they dont up and leave. I tried that with me ex wife (like lots of feather ruffling). Oh well if ya go ya go .. Nice knowing ya and good luck.

 

[roberte]

Really? For for lack of expletives why? Every one gets a little ruffled under the feathers every now and then but they dont up and leave. I tried that with me ex wife (like lots of feather ruffling). Oh well if ya go ya go .. Nice knowing ya and good luck.

no loose ends but keep coming back for more.
I stand by my "see you on the next falling uphill and backwards thread"

 

[056kid]

Guys before I leave this site (and it is a good forum with a shed load of good info) I will say this.....


Every day fallers overcome and adapt to the situation they find themselves in .......it part of being a good faller ........getting the job done effectively and with minimal fuss.......but most importantly SAFELY.


I don't agree vehemently with falling without a face and view that as just plain nuts .........but I will not ridicule a person over a type of notch or technique. Things can be pointed out in a manner that can be understood and discussed (I don't mean blowing smoke up some ones ass ......mine or any one else) but telling some one that a notch is a disgrace is just plain daft and unhelpful to all. I've seen that notch before (I'm not defending or sucking up) and can well see the how and why.



I may be haven't been entirely truthful lol but I have seen a hell of alot of timber felled and have cut with the big guys. I will not drop names (no need and why should I as not looking for kudos) but I'm still alive and so are they (apart from the ones who have passed naturally) I am still learning everyday in life.



I will now take my leave and wish all the best to everyone and more importantly y'all stay safe.


best Regards


G



ps. I don't post pics as learned in the military that is when crap starts flying when they misconstrued and............not understood or just plain commented on by folks that don't know. Hey it a free world lol

See ya........

(Edit), I was tryin to be nice, but since you send me a chitty message then choose not to receive them,

Don't let the door hit you in your pained ass on the way out...

 

[4x4American]

4X4, bet his head would explode with this one.

haha yea that's for sure!