Tcw-3 ????

[Oregon_Native]

ok i have not been at this two stroke game very long, but what is the difference between TCW-3 2 cycle oil and the stuff that is sold for new saws.

just wondering because it seems cheaper and says it is recommended buy a bunch of manufactures. also i know there is a difference between oil for air cooled and water cooled 2 cycle engines. but the bottle's of TCW-3 i see at work say to use it in either.

 

[Oregon_Native]

found info on tcw3 from havoline

http://www.havoline.com/products/na/motoroil_tcw3.html

it still doesn't answer my question though.

 

[Stumper]

Native, The technical answers are complex but here is a "simple" explanation. The U.S has two 2-cycle oil standards. TC -which is older than dirt and stands for two-cycle and TCW (with 1-3-tacked on) which stands for Two-Cycle-Watercooled). The TC standard is so old that the engines used for testing the oils have worn out and are not in production. The TCW standards have continued to advance and we are up to TCWIII. I am not certain about the early TCW oils but TCWII exceeded the performance of the old TC oils in aircooled engines so-even though it is made for watercooled engines turning at lower RPMS it also exceeded the minimum performance standards for two-cycle air cooled engine oil in the U.S. The Europeans and Japanese have advanced their standards for aircooled 2 cycle oils and it is best to use iso-EGD or Japanese FC oils in our chainsaws. At the current state of things ANY two cycle oil will meet U.S. aircooled standards(presumably-they can't actually be tested sinc ethe test engines are dead) and is therefore "approved". I used TCW 2 and 3 oils for many years without problems but I now check labels and go for the best aircooled oils. To meet the Jaanesse FC or ISO EGD standards they must be at least part synthetic I'm told.

 

[Koa Man]

I use Echo synthetic, mainly because that is the only synthetic oil the local store sells. I made the change after Dan Henry told me to use syn. oil in the PP saws I got from him. I never had a problem with the dino oil before, but figured why take a chance on an expensive saw. I also increased my mix from the 50 to 1 that Echo says to use to 32/1 after reading some of the comments here that 50/1 was too light of a mixture.

 

[bwalker]

Echo powerblend is the same oil as Citgo aircooled that is sold for around $7 per gallon. Save yourself some money.

 

[bwalker]

Stumper, I think your statement in regards to tcw3 oils meeting TC specs isnt true. The additive packages used in the two are vastly differant. Besides the test engines for the TC spec are long gone so no one can say that any oils passes the TC spec. I might also add the TCW3 oils in general are garbage when used in anything other than a boat. The high flashpoint solvents used in TCw3 oils create deposit issues and since tcw3 oils contain no detergents it really becomes a problem.
BTW every saw manual I have ever seen forbids the use of tcw3, watercooled oils.

 

[Koa Man]

Echo powerblend is the same oil as Citgo aircooled that is sold for around $7 per gallon. Save yourself some money.

I need to find Citgo around here. I have seen Citgo motor oils, but not the 2 cycle oils. I will go searching harder. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Oregon_Native]

has any one used the synth oil sold by ACE Hardware.

i use there standard 2 cycle oil in the pre mix bottle's because up till now i only needed to mix a gallon a year for the weeded eater and then had a some left over that got put through the lawn mower or in the tractor.

how a bout synt oils made for motor cycles i use golden spectro in my Honda Odyssey with good results.

 

[Stumper]

Ben, I used 'presumably' because the makers can't actually test to API standards. You will note that the link to Havoline's two cycle that Native provided says that their oil meets TC-since it meets ISO EGD and JASCO FB it must surpass TC so that is a safe assertion. That link also shows that TCW-3 CAN meet aircooled standards-though it doesn't make JASCO FC.

Native, Motorcycle oils vary but your chances of high quality are probably better than with the stuff in the outdoor power equipment aisle.

 

[bwalker]

I thank havoline might be full of sheet. I would be very suprised if it indeed did meet API TC or JASO FB, ISO EGB. I am not sure about the jaso fb and the related iso egb test regimes, but from the info I have a tcw3 oils will not pass api tc. IN fact my new Doo snomobile specs a " API TC, low ash" oil. It makes no mention of the ISO EGD or JASO FC, but it does forbid the use of tcw3 oils which makes it seem as though a tcw3 oil can not meet the tc spec.
BTW the only air cooled motors suited to tcw3 oils are lawnboy mowers and toro snowblowers,mowers.

 

[bwalker]

See this? Dont get scammed into buying echo powerblend when Citgo air cooled is the same stuff. The msds identical to this one for aircooled can be found at citgos website.
http://www.echo-usa.com/oot/docs/50to1OilMix_101002.pdf

 

[firebrick43]

MSDS doesn't mean the same

Just because the MSDS matches doen't mean that the oils are the same. Many lubricating oils of the same class(10W-30 for example) have the exact same MSDS sheet for most brands. But some are vastly superiour in anti wear performance than others because of their base stocks. And just because it meets the specs (API, SE, TCW-III, the list goes on) doesnt mean you will get the same performance as another oil or even ones that dont meet certain specs. I was invovled in testing oil for turbine engines and you always had to go by sceintific test not the ratings. A yugo and a ferrari are would both be certified as cars but I let you be the judge of which one is better

I would recomend buying from one of the 3 manufactures themsevles(stihl, husky, echo) or mobil 1 racing 2t, amsoil sabre atp. Can't comment on Citgo. Stay away from penzoil, pennsyvainia crude base stocks is the nastiest stuff you would ever want to put in any engine.

As to tcw3, amsoil (which along with mobile always scored the highest in our test) has 4 different oils for 2 strokes, and they do not recommend using their tcw3 oils in a chainsaw.

 http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/two_cycle_oils.htm?OVRAW=ski%20doo%20oil&OVKEY=ski%20doo%20oil&OVMTC=standard

 

[glens]

 http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/two_cycle_oils.htm?OVRAW=ski%20doo%20oil&OVKEY=ski%20doo%20oil&OVMTC=standard

I guess you'd meant [url]http://www.syntheticwarehouse....=ski doo oil&OVKEY=ski doo oil&OVMTC=standard[/url]?

 

[bwalker]

Oh brother! Another Scamsoil salesman.

 

[bwalker]

BTW the whole thing about Penn cude causing wax buildup is a old wives tale based on much ignorance. people confused the term parrafinic crude with parafin wax which isnt the same thing. Besides Penn crude hasnt been used in years and even if it where todays refining processes remove the wax and convert it into usefull base oils. Rotella T synthetic is actually starts out life as a block of wax. Mobil; also has bas eoil plant that produces synthetic, group3 oils from waxy raffinate feed stocks.

 

[firebrick43]

Before you open your mouth why dont you first know what you are talking about. I do not use amsoil or sell it. I use nothing but mobile one in my vehicles because of the oil quality test I was witness to in the military. Amsoil did score number one, but mobile was so close that is was within the testing error, both were far above everything else being tested. Now at half the price I would not consider using amsoil. I use stihl 2 stroke oil, I would use mobile but I hate measuring out so I buy packs of the little bottles. The major 3 companies(stihl, Husky, and Echo) have a major vested interest in how the oils perform (warranty repair cost) so they specify oil well above average in their saws. Citgo could care less, they have no vested interest in any 2 stroke engine, not to say that it isn't good oil, just that or you dont know, and the MSDS will not tell you these things. If you want to save money on oil, buy in bulk and go to you lubricant distriubution warehouse, most decent sized towns have one.

As to pennzoil, I never said any thing about wax, their oils break down and lose their lubricating properties very quickly.

 

[bwalker]

to pennzoil, I never said any thing about wax, their oils break down and lose their lubricating properties very quickly.

Thats pure BS.
MSDS for a PCMO and a two cycle oil are too differant animals. If two, two cycle oils have the exact same base oil make up chances are they will also have the same additive package.
BTW I would like to know what " quality" test you ssaw in the military? As far as I know the only lube testing the Army does on a regular basis is UOA's which is to determin change intervals only.

 

[firebrick43]

Again Assumptions have made you an A@!

I said military, not army, I was a helicopter mechanic in the Marine Corps and when promoted to Sgt I was placed in the Quality assurance department. The Navy (Marine Corps is a department of the navy) has a JOAP (Joint oil analysis program) Lab in San Diego where they test oils for aircraft and ground vehicles. We sent oil samples here for test, as it is changed on intervals. They also hade a series of three manuals with oil specifications and test results.

 

[bwalker]

Your the a#$ as I never said you where in the army.......