Teaching a new climber

[OutOnaLimb]

About three weeks ago I had to get rid of my old groundie, because he was a serious accident waiting to happen. I hired on a new kid who is fresh out of the Marine Corps who is really big into rock climbing. Since I am ex-military we have the same mind set and communicate pretty good. He is great on the ground and picked up on running ropes in about a day. He is really interested in learning to climb and I put him up in a small trim job yesterday. I was taught that you need to start off knowing how to use the old end of rope method of using a Blakes or taughtline, but he says that he would rather use a tress cord with a swabish like what I use. I kinda let him play with both, however I had to tie the hitches for him. He still likes the swabish, but I feel that he needs to learn old school first.

The other thing is that he is the gung ho type and wants to go straight to the chain saw, but when I was learning my boss wouldnt let me touch a chain saw for at least the first month. He has the concept of hinge wood and proper cuts down from working on the ground for a few weeks, but I broke down and let him use a chain saw in a tree and a few times when he made an under cut he cut to deep and what did it do???. Yeah, it pinched the bar and he had to wrestle it out. Go figure. We have all been there. I am a little leary of letting him use a chain saw in a tree for a little while. I probibly shouldnt have sent it up to him in the first place. What do ya all think?

The other thing is that he is a great rock climber, but climbing trees is a whole different animal. Its kinda funny to watch him play koala bear on a tree, when all he needs to do is body thrust up a few more feet and then swing out to where he is in a good position. I try to coach him from the ground, but he is a little hard headed. The next time I put him up I am thinking I will set a line in a separted crotch and be up there with him coaching next to him instead of from the ground.

What are all of ya'lls ideas on teaching the new guy????


Kenn:Monkey:

Other that only put him up in Russian olive and locust trees. LOL

 

[Treemonkey1000]

I think you should tell him that you have been doing this long enough and have made enough mistakes that you don't want him doing the same things. That you are the Sargent and he the Private for now. Sure he is gung-ho and all to learn. He still needs a little patience. Do give him opportunities to try out things. Keep in mind any mistakes he makes may cost him or you Dearly. You can't take it back if he hurts himself or someone else

 

[NeTree]

I think you have found yourself a willing student, and that's a VERY GOOD thing.

Keeping him from getting ahead of his skills will be tough with this kid, but it sounds like he may very well advance faster than you can keep up.

Take it slower, but not too slow; he may lose interest.

Getting in the tree with him sounds like a very good way to correct his little mistakes before they turn into bad habits.

Sounds like with just a small amount of guidance and safety training, me has alot of potential.

 

[OutOnaLimb]

The cool thing about this kid is that he is ex military as well and understands the chain of command. I will consider his opinion, but when it comes down to the final say so, it is my call, and that is gospel. I do think I need to rein him back a little, I wont put him in a position to get seriously injured. but a new kid in a tree with a chain saw can be risky, no matter how studly he thinks he is. Your right though, if he sticks it out this guys gonna be one hell of a climber when its all said and done. Its just up to me right now to mold this lump of clay into one bad a$$ tree man a year or two down the road. Any thing worth doing is worth doing right, so I respect the advice of the guys who came before me to keep us on the right track. Keep the advise comin guys.

Kenn
:Monkey:

 

[Dadatwins]

Agree with starting with the old school basics for anyone new to biz. Advanced tech may lead to advance confusion.
As far as chain saw use, think it should be mastered on the ground before hauling one up in tree. Plenty of training using chain saw to limb up brush on the ground. Stand up a cut limb and practice notch and rips on the ground, might be more to rake up but worth it. Thing happen a little slower with a hand saw which is not always a bad thing for someone new. Don't want to get newbie bored but better bored than hurt. Good luck with new hire.

 

[OutOnaLimb]

The first day on the job I was showing him the branch collar. and he knows all about CODIT. He has heard me rattle of my spiel on bids quite a few times now. He has the basic fundimentals of pruning down, and is gobbling up as much as I can feed him. I think I just need to emphasize it a little more being up there with him. And your right Rocky. The best lessons are the hardest learned. That is why I will kick back and watch him pinch a saw or flounder around for 15 min trying to lead climb up the trunk of the tree instead of body thrusting up and swinging over. Its all good. I enjoy spreading the good gospel of tree work to every one.

Kenn

:Monkey:

 

[Dadatwins]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel


Second, the best piece of advice/ training I ever got and it pissed me off to no end at the time. I worked for a Prima Dona climber and his favorite answer to all of my questions was "Watch and learn, Brian. Watch and learn".

Yeah,but did you? And are you still Pissed?

 

[MasterBlaster]

So does he have any of the books necessary to study? Does he have a computer? He needs to check this site out for dang sure.

It sounds like you made a good hire.

Now you gotta teach em, and then KEEP EM!

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

My advice is pay him well. Once his feet leave the ground, he should get at least $20 - $25 bucks an hour, plus some benefits. Then keep the raises comming as he improves.
Pay him $10 or $15 and he'll be gone as soon as learns the basics.

 

[My like trees]

I agree with most replies, teach him how to use a saw on the ground first and keep him there for the most part. He should be able to climb though, just let him climb the ones where the saw is not going to be a problem so much, smaller stuff, small removals. Hopefully he has an alertness that most people don't. I was taught so young i find it hard to remember what exactl words my teacher used but I feel the positions, good and bad. and the I can feel the place i should be and shouldn't and my footing and balance. Teach him footing while usung the saw, Itsa hard to tell good foot work by looking at it some times because you don't know if he is pushing the saw or if his using the saw for balance or if he is using his feet while cutting. I would ask him about the feel and find out what he feels is safe and go from there.

 

[SteveBullman]

when i was taught i was only sent up straight forward cut and drop takedowns at first. all i had to think about was my knots and positioning myself safely when cutting.

 

[BigJohn]

25 an hour ???? I'll come climb for ya and you don't need to teach me anything. I only get 21 and hour sh1ty benifits no dental but the tooth jokes fly since a took a hit with an ascender and chipped a tooth, and get talked to like I am 2 and don't how to do anything. Get verbal spankings for not wanting to take the ladder off the truck to trim a bush. Get sent out to pick dead branches in the woods and ?????ed at for not showing him any action that he pays me so well for.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Bummer, John.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

$21 bucks an hour for a good climber? Sounds low.
What's a nice starter home go for in your area?

 

[OutOnaLimb]

Originally posted by MasterBlaster
So does he have any of the books necessary to study? Does he have a computer? He needs to check this site out for dang sure.

It sounds like you made a good hire.

Now you gotta teach em, and then KEEP EM!

I have given him my old tree climbers companion and a bunch of old Sherrill catalogs. Yeah they are just catalogs, and he is gonna start buying some of his own gear, but they have some killer illustrations on how to use just about every thing they sell.

Kenn.:Monkey:

 

[BigJohn]

Hmm a nice starter home? maybe 150,000. I picked up a shanty on an about 1 acre lot for 68,000. Its a house but seems more like a small double wide. Lots of room to expand but no money to do it.

Seems like contract climbing is the way to go. I gotta wonder if I'm just stupid for not doing it or not having my own buisness.

 

[coydog]

skilled climbers top out around 20 with bennies here in oregon
getting in the tree with the guy is a great way to teach.
blake's on a traditional system is a pretty important foundation, as is being able to tie a climbing knot unassisted.

 

[MasterBlaster]

There are two types of climbers. One works every day for the same company. The other works for however many companies they can in a part-time position - the contract/independent climber.

The former is paid generally paid less, but with steadier work and sometimes some benifits. The latter is sub-contract labor, and is paid more but with less of a guarantee to work and no benifits. They are also more dependent upon the job market in the area.

Then there is the third type of climber, the climber-owner. This type of operation is usually the most successful.

As a hired gun, I love the number of tree company owners around here that cannot climb. I think it's SWEET!

:angel:

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

If you could only work out that major medical / disability thing, you would be in heaven.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Just don't get hurt.

:angel: