Term paper second try

[John Paul Sanborn]

Comments?

Sorry about the lack of line-breaks, the board does not recognize .docx files

 

[sgreanbeans]

SULE, what is that?
Acronym I'm Guessing, I know it does not mean" Small Unit Leadership Evaluation"!
Good paper JPS

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

SULE, what is that?
Acronym I'm Guessing, I know it does not mean" Small Unit Leadership Evaluation"!
Good paper JPS

Sustainable Useful Life Expectancy, earlier in the decade it was a concept for hazard eval that has morphed into a maintenance concept. Take species/condition/location into consideration and project how long you can manage the tree in situ, give the client an idea as to pruning cycles and a prospective time for removal. This give them an idea as to what they need to budget for the long term.

 

[Mike Cantolina]

I'm not a writer but I tried to fix a few (mostly) spelling errors.

I also converted it into a .doc file.

 

[treeslayer]

thanks mike, I'm reading it now.

very thought provoking John. great job so far.

Jeff has been converting me to the stewardship prospective, and it is a natural evolution for me to see the sound logic. I know I can implement it and follow it, for it is all about the tree, and what should I do to make it better? I'm hell on spikes, (removals) but leaving em up and looking better from correct pruning sure does make everybody notice.
Beside's, I do so much pruning now, I better......

I'd be happy to add some input/grammer/thought into it, as Mike has done.

 

[TreeAce]

Interesting. Not sure what you are gonna use it for but thats beside the point. I would like to comment on the "outliers" part. I think that just because someone doesn't know all the things that make a tree a tree doesnt make them a "hack". There is ALOT I don't know about tree biology. I know very little about soil. There are many other things, pretty hard to make a list of things you don't know. BUT...I do know how to make a proper cut , I don't top trees (although I have re-topped a few) , I can spot more common diseases . I know basic tree ID. My point is I think there is a sizable gap between a full blown cert arborist and a hack. Maybe I misunderstood what you had written and if so I apologize in advance.

 

[PinnaclePete]

I do think some of us (myself included) have been, or are, parts of this Continuum. I was probably a hack before I learned better. I am a tree hugger when I see properties indiscriminantly cleared for development. I'm an advocate when talking to clients, and a manager when I'm working on the property.

I don't think you can label people or fit them in a box. And as you said, what was right decades ago is now "proven" wrong. Who's to say that directional pruning, cabling or the use of growth regulators won't be proved as wrong in 50 years. We do the best we can with the knowledge we have. That's why I personally keep trying to learn more.

As to rights and stewardship...the property owner has the right to do what he wants to with his property as long as it causes no harm to others. Stewardship belongs to public property - street trees, parks, public property, highway rights-of-way, etc. As an Advocate you can Motivate and Educate the owner to become good steward and Manage his property with BMPs, but you can't Obligate him to.

With that said, after another spell check and grammar check, I'll give you a B+, IMHO.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Interesting. Not sure what you are gonna use it for but thats beside the point. I would like to comment on the "outliers" part. I think that just because someone doesn't know all the things that make a tree a tree doesnt make them a "hack". There is ALOT I don't know about tree biology. I know very little about soil. There are many other things, pretty hard to make a list of things you don't know. BUT...I do know how to make a proper cut , I don't top trees (although I have re-topped a few) , I can spot more common diseases . I know basic tree ID. My point is I think there is a sizable gap between a full blown cert arborist and a hack. Maybe I misunderstood what you had written and if so I apologize in advance.

From what you say, I would call you an arborist. The CA does not make the arbo, it is a tool that shows the public the arbo has a minimal set of knowledge.

I do think some of us (myself included) have been, or are, parts of this Continuum. I was probably a hack before I learned better. I am a tree hugger when I see properties indiscriminantly cleared for development. I'm an advocate when talking to clients, and a manager when I'm working on the property.

I don't think you can label people or fit them in a box. And as you said, what was right decades ago is now "proven" wrong. Who's to say that directional pruning, cabling or the use of growth regulators won't be proved as wrong in 50 years. We do the best we can with the knowledge we have. That's why I personally keep trying to learn more.

As to rights and stewardship...the property owner has the right to do what he wants to with his property as long as it causes no harm to others. Stewardship belongs to public property - street trees, parks, public property, highway rights-of-way, etc. As an Advocate you can Motivate and Educate the owner to become good steward and Manage his property with BMPs, but you can't Obligate him to.

I would say that you are a manager with a tendency to advocate (another nod to Don Blair)

 

[PinnaclePete]

I would say that you are a manager with a tendency to advocate (another nod to Don Blair)

Or a tree hugging advocate who likes to over-manage :hmm3grin2orange: but never, ever a hack.

 

[treeman75]

You can be an arborist but that don't make you a good tree man.

 

[pdqdl]

Comments?

Sorry about the lack of line-breaks, the board does not recognize .docx files

Use the "Save as" function. Docx is a newer format for Word. If saved as Word 2000, you should have no problems.

Another option: saved as .rtf, other word processors can open and still keep your formatting.

 

[pdqdl]

Oh no! I went off the deep end, and produced a rather in-depth proofread and critique of your paper. Years ago, I used to be a proofreader for my university "Typing Services", so this has been nothing more than a fun diversion for me. I should have been doing some of my own paperwork instead.

I did not attempt to comment on your meaning or content; I was only proofreading and making style corrections. I hope you find my comments helpful. My comments are surrounded with brackets [] and also are formatted in blue. If you have any problems deciphering my notes, let me know, and I can re-send in RTF or another format.

I presumed that you were looking for help on a grade, not criticism of your ideas. Writing papers and composition is what I do best. I'm MUCH better at that than I am at tree work.

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162213&stc=1&d=1292469232

 

[BC WetCoast]

John, an interesting paper.

I think you may want to discuss the notion of publicly-owned trees versus privately-owned trees. In my opinion, the advocate is going to gravitate to jobs where they are managing publicly-owned trees and the manager toward privately-owned trees.

 

[treeseer]

Sustainable Useful Life Expectancy, earlier in the decade it was a concept for hazard eval that has morphed into a maintenance concept.

It was SAFE not Sustainable--you improve it really by incorporating more of the 4th dimension (time) than Jeremy did/does in his system. :yourock: This is SULE's chief limitation.

pqdl yes editing style can be a compulsion; and a major distraction to assessing content! Hard to turn off..:help:

.rtf, hmmm

 

[pdqdl]

.rtf, hmmm

.rtf = Rich Text Format. A option to save in MS Word, you can send an .rtf to another person that only has Wordpad, and does not have MS Office.

Ooooh! The managers of AS do not seem to accept an .rtf file, so I can't upload one to here. That's OK. JPS can save a docx, I'm sure a .doc is no problem for him.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I presumed that you were looking for help on a grade, not criticism of your ideas.

]

Thanks! I was looking for comments in general from tree-guys ( Guy is a dyed in the wool advocate), but I will take the copy edit assist any time.

This was my third paper this semester, and I was going crosseyed by the time I got to working on it. I admit that it is a step above free-writing, it should be a second draft. Since this is a philos class, it is allowed to be a bit eccentric in your delivery.

A continuum is a philosophical construct for things like modes of thought and self-ideation where you can set polar opposites. Our two party political system is a continuum with the liberal needs based "demand" side on one end and the conservative rights based "supply" side on the other. Most of us fall in between, as with my construct of the rights driven "manager" opposite the stewardship driven "advocate" on the other.

Both the Manager and the Advocate are experienced and qualified arborists. The construction of the continuum is intended to look at the "how and why" we tree guys do what we do.

I can understand how it would be confusing to read if you are used to point driven thesis papers.

With your comment 6, those were end-notes that got screwed up in the file conversion.

I've taken most of your suggestions and got the formulas back in that were lost in conversion to .txt. They might help with that concept...

 

[treeseer]

Died in the wool? Does that mean I was suffocated by sheep, or sweaters? :hmm3grin2orange:

It goes way deeper--I am dyed in my very marrow, forest green! But I killed 2 big living maples yesterday...umpkin2:

I started messing with it, and all of a sudden it's 2 a.m., damyouanyway Sanborn!

 

[pdqdl]

I'm sure that you know this anyway...

Once upon a time, quality fabric was dyed before it was spun into yarn and woven. Cheaper products were spun into yarn, and then made into fabric. Sometimes, things weren't dyed until the fabric was woven.


"Dyed in the wool" means "the real thing"; a quality product.

You have been complimented, I believe.

 

[pdqdl]

...
I started messing with it, and all of a sudden it's 2 a.m., damyouanyway Sanborn!

I spent too much time on it too. Ol' JPS is worth it, but he'd better get a good grade.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I spent too much time on it too. Ol' JPS is worth it, but he'd better get a good grade.

I turned it in last night, the prof said it looks real good.

One ironic point; a goodly number of Guy's copy edit changed yours I see a number of his suggestions as more style, not my voice

G2 -I learned Propagation 12-15 years ago, Google the subject and ISA does not pop up FWIW.

G5 - Yes, quite often tree values is sacrificed for perceived property value. A few minutes of discussion can work with both.

G6 - The outliers client-list is his niche, not relevant to the overall model on both ends.

G7 - Gender neutral get's cumbersome from time to time, and personally annoying. I'd never make the grade in woman's studies

G8 - Hyperbole is an accepted tool in any argument, especially philos papers.

G9 - I considered it, but that seemed more of a history lesson then an expansion of the arborist, and one could argue that Muir was a posterchild for an outlier. It is amazing how many things he got right, way ahead of his times. To bad he died knowing his home would be flooded for generations.

G10 - Thank you, thankyou v'rymuch (Elvis smiley missing)


G13 - true, that would have beefed the paper up.

G17 - I must have read Disreali's quote of Clemens

G18 - To my knowledge it is the creation of a phrase alone

G21 - removing Vocation ruins the pun you did not see - A vocation is a calling, such as god calling a man to "the cloth". I hear a voice calling me to climb trees.