The best sharpening

[don]

Thank you Stumper

Okay, I get it. The first filing is for the entire top plate and the second filing is for the remainder of the side plate missed while filing the top plate.
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Stumper thank you for downloading those pics. I am glad you did it on the site so others could see. Also, it takes a few minutes to download all those pictures, I bet even longer if you emailed them ditrectly to me.

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Used the saw on a Pistacio tree and cut through it like butter!

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[Stumper]

Don, YES! Thanks for putting it so simply.Sometimes I get stuck on my descriptions.Glad you had success.

 

[CMBetz]

I have always had the trailing edge of the file lowered ten degrees, as shown on the picture on the back of the Oregon box. Have I been doing it backward all this time?

Here's the link to their technical manual:
http://www.oregonchain.com/tech/ms_manual/ms_06.pdf

It's a pdf file, and takes a little time to load. I'll see if I can use the Acrobat writer to cut out just the part that I'm referring to.

 

[winstonsmith]

Thats a good question Christian, I was just wondering the same thing. I have been doing the 10 degrees with the handle end of the file pointed down, but the in the pictures he showed it looked like his handle was up. I am now getting confused.

 

[CMBetz]

Okay, guys and gals. I know it's burried somewhere in the analogs of AS, but I couldn't find it. How do I post a picture, specifically a .pmb, file here?

 

[jokers]

10° Down Angle

For a few years, Oregon was recommending no down angle although the shape of the cutter was the same as the previous with the down angle recommendation and is the same as now with the down angle recommendation. I have no idea why they did that but I do have a few older ( 5-6 yrs) boxes for loops with that bad info on it. In my experience you have to hold the tail down 10° or you aren`t sharpening the whole topplate, in fact if you look at the current Oregon manual as Christian has stated, most of the .325 and 3/8`s models require it. I posted a list several months ago under a different thread regarding this requirement, the list was rather long and taken right from their manual. I understand Stumpers point and it too makes sense, which makes proper filing a two step process, excluding filing rakers. I think this is most important on a new, taller in relationship to the file, tooth. This could also explain why a new chain cuts faster if you give it a few licks with a file before the first use. In looking at a new chain you can see where a beak of sorts is almost formed in the trailing corner of the gullet. This transition should be smoother to help the chips flow out with out changing their direction in the cut( kinda the laminar vs turbulent flow thing, LOL), since they have already been severed by the time this part of the tooth contacts them the way I see it. Very good point Stumper, I`ve been thinking about this since you brought it up and I think you caused my to realize a little bit more about the dynamics of the cut. Thanks, Russ

 

[Stumper]

CMBetz and Winston, Many years ago I also filed with the handle down 10 degrees-It worked but I seemed do get just as good of result with the file level so I filed level for years. The angle change (handle up/filing down for the top plate) came a few years ago when an old logger/saw mechanic shared his"secret" with me and convinced me via test cuts that it was truly superior. You haven't been doing it "wrong" but I think you'll find the change worthwhile.

P.S. Thanks for the kind words Russ!

 

[Art Martin]

TreeCo,
I've spent over 40 hours often on racing chains. I used to completely dismantle a chain. Then with a surface grinder that I made, I would remove .020" from the inside surface of the tooth. That is the flat side where hole for the rivets are. The purpose being to narrow the kerf for a total of .040". The gain was so minimal for the time expended, that I felt it wasn't justified. I then tried another approach and made an adjustable grinder that would remove the chrome and change the angle of the outside of the tooth. I found this to be much easier and accomplished a better end result. Also, I spent two weeks making a "full house" 1/2" pitch chain for my 090 Stihl. That chain paid off. Actual cutting time made by Sawracer was three cuts in 4.5 seconds in a 17" white fir.
As far as you comment about sitting on my knee--how much do you weigh? If you are as heavy as Rotax, forget it.

Art Martin

 

[Gypo Logger]

Hi Art, it reminds me of the 400 hrs. Gaston Duprere put into his chain and his feet sprouted roots! lol
Anyway, I think I will stick to my 90 second tickle and that doesnt mean with Robert sitting on my knee either.
John

 

[timberwolf]

Just some non scienticic observations

I had to try the 10 deg up angle, though the father inlaw thought I was out to lunch. Filed a 33RS and a 91VS chain, slight but noticable improvement in both, and no apparent problem keeping an edge.

The only potential problem I saw was with the RS chain in that the up handle filing produced more of a point on the corner of the tooth (caused by the file contacting the tooth higher on the file section). I would imagine that the point would be easly damaged in harder woods or if you hit anything hard. Consiquenialy more material would likely need to be removed to resharpen the tooth.

Timberwolf

 

[rbtree]

91VS is meant to be filed straight across. Or so I've read- and always done. I think you'd end up filing into the gullets as the cutters get smaller....

It is only chisel chain that you tip the file on, I think.

And we're talking round filing, square is a whole nother ball game.

 

[jokers]

Hi Roger, of course you`re right about the file being held perpendicular on the 91VS, but according to what I believe is the latest Oregon Maintenance and Safety Manual, November 1, `99, there are several chains with radiused working corners requiring that the handle be tipped 10°. I`ll provide the list, hopefully I got it right, lol. First is the 1/4" Micro chisel(radiused corner), then in .325 is 20 - 22BP Micro Chisel, 95VP Micro Lite, 3/8s ripping chains 72-75RD, .404 Micro Chisel 27 + 27A(skip), .404 Rip 27R + 27RA(skip) and .404 Micro Bit Chipper 58 + 59CP, as well as some Harvester chains. As I said, these all have a radiused corner, not a square "chisel" corner. I posted this info for the benefit of anyone who may be running any of this chain and doesn`t have the specs handy. Russ the rambling know it all.

 

[treeclimber165]

Russ,
So basically if the top edge of the cutter is squared off (like a '7'), you file straight across. If it is rounded (like a '?') you tip the file handle 10*?
I've always tipped the HANDLE up when filing the 10* angle. Are you saying to tip the HANDLE down?

 

[jokers]

Hi Brian, I hope I can answer your questions clearly, keep asking until you are satisfied. My previous reply was in regard to the common misconception that semi chisel or chipper profiles, ie: radiused, don`t require or benefit from the tipped handle. As you can see, there are several Oregon chains that do, and I`ve had similar observations with Stihl chain, except that I don`t have those specs in front of me. Square cornered chisel(7) does require the 10° tilt to properly sharpen the whole topplate. If you can, with my example, looking from behind the tooth visualize the 7 with the leg pointing straight up and down, the top now points down at an angle, it is not level. This is similar to the profile of a tooth, if the side plate is on the right and perpendicular to level, the topplate is angled down from right to left, so you would need to have the handle of the file in your left hand, 10°s lower than your right hand to put a uniform bevel on the bottom of the topplate. If I am reading your statement correctly, I would expect to find a progressively more blunt bevel on the bottom of your topplates, going from sharpest at the working corner to very blunt at the trailing edge. Find a magnifying glass and take a look. You can sometimes see in a partial cut, evidence of the topplate angle. It will be higher in the center, just like an old Jeep trail. Hope I`m helping you with this rather than muddying the water, LOL. Russ

 

[StIhL MaGnUm]

OK so what or how do you recommened sharpening this Stihl RM .325 crap on a 029,what angles etc...

I kinda understand what your talking about but I'am still a little confused

Later Rob...

 

[treeclimber165]

OK. So as far as the horozontal plane, you match the file to the top plate of the cutter tooth. If the cutter tooth is 10* off from level, you tip the file 10* to match. That way the top plate is filed at the same angle all the way across.
If this is correct, I am doing it right. I was getting the idea that it should be angled more or less but couldn't figure out which.

(I'm only talking about the top plate angle, not the side plate angle)

 

[jokers]

Hi Rob, that`s probably 26RM 2, or "green **** link chain" as Poulottolux fondly calls it. The proper specs per Stihl are 85° side plate angle, .025 on the rakers, 30° angle on the topplate with the file held at 90° to the bar using a 4.8mm or 3/16s file. To get the right sideplate or hook angle make sure that you hold the file high enough up the tooth, ie: 1/5 the diameter above the topplate. Please don`t be offended if I am telling you things that you already know.

Brian, yeah, that`s right, I figured there was a sort of communications breakdown between us. You would have noticed long ago if your tops weren`t sharp, especially with those "wimpy" saws you run, LOL. Russ

 

[jokers]

Just thought to mention that filing with the handle dropped is a common cause of those semi- beaks that form in the trailing edge of the gullet on newer cutters, when the file doesn`t go all the way to the bottom of the gullet. They of course need to be cleaned out. Russ

 

[StIhL MaGnUm]

Thanks Russ...

 

[treeclimber165]

Finally got my latest pics on my 'puter. Here is a pic of my file storage. Cheap, clean, effective, easy to keep on the truck, and you can use the tube to set under your bar when filing on the ground to keep the chain out of the dirt. Less than $1.