The big Pioneer 800 - why so rare?

[CM76]

Calling on the Pioneer aficionados for this one. I haven't done alot of research on this subject, however we all know that the Pioneer 800 is a hard to find machine, and I am delving into the subject to find out why.
Does anyone have any information on the history of these saws: Know someone who worked with these saws, owned one etc?
Were these saws popular saws for the big timber ? Have these units been used up to the point where they have been scrapped / thrown out? Were they not so good, and sales were down - hence the rarity of them in this day and age? Were the big Homelite and McCulloch saws too much competition of the day?
It would be great to know, as they are indeed a rare animal.

Chris.

 

[leeha]

Chris, I'm definately not the expert here. But i would guess
the weight or cost kept the sales down. They started life as
the IEL JA in 1956 then the JB and JC before going to Pioneer
in 1960 and discontinued in 1961. They are a rare bird and
very seldom seen for sale. I have two nice 800's that are real
nice runners. I know of one of the JA JB Or JC's here in Conn.
but it isn't running. Definately a neat saw to own.


Lee

 

[leeha]

Here's some pic's of my two 800's. Notice the
to different air filter cover colors.
I believe cbfarmall has an 800 as well.
The one with the brown filter cover actually came
from your home country. I have had it for about
5 years now. The other came from Canada which
iv'e had for about 3 years.


Lee

 

[Jacob J.]

I can't speak for all areas, but here on the west coast, Homelite and McCulloch had made impressive gains with their
large saws around the time that the larger IEL one-man saws were coming out and then transitioning to the Pioneer
brand. I talked to a guy here that I met on Craigslist who had been an IEL/Pioneer distributor (he'd also been a Titan
saw dealer) and he told me he couldn't compete with the lighter and newer Macs and Homies (like Lee mentioned,
weight and cost were the big factors.) Another factor was how easily Mac and Homie were making it at the time to
become a dealer so many mom and pop hardware stores were able to start carrying national-branded chainsaws with
a relatively small investment. The little town where I grew up (population 6-800) even had its' own long-time Homelite
dealership which operated out of the back of a hardware store. There was even a general store in a tiny little
community up in the mountains northeast of us that was a Mac/Homie dealer. The guy that ran that store was a local
legend, cutting timber by day and then running down and operating the store and servicing saws until late at night,
seven days a week. He also sold White's brand boots.

The retired dealer I talked to was a distributor for IEL/Pioneer, Titan, and Power Machinery/Canadien in Wilsonville, Or.,
which is a suburb of sorts for Portland. So he had a large population base to work with, but he still had trouble
disseminating those brands. At the time I met him in 2009, he was 95 going on 96 and he sold me several used saws
and boxes of PM/Canadien and IEL parts.

Like yourself Chris, I've been chasing these saws for years. I almost had a member here talked out of one but he's
too smart and decided to hang onto it (I would have too if I were him.) However, you should have good luck if you
look around Tasmania. IEL/Pioneer and PM/Canadien were very popular brands in Tasmania. A lot of my old issues
of Chainsaw Age magazine document the export in large quantities of those brands to Tasmanian dealers and there's
numerous articles on the falling of big timber in Tas and the northeast coast of Ozland.

 

[CM76]

Here's some pic's of my two 800's. Notice the
to different air filter cover colors.
I believe cbfarmall has an 800 as well.
The one with the brown filter cover actually came
from your home country. I have had it for about
5 years now. The other came from Canada which
iv'e had for about 3 years.


Lee

Thanks for your input here Lee - those are two really nice 800's you have there in your collection.

I can't speak for all areas, but here on the west coast, Homelite and McCulloch had made impressive gains with their
large saws around the time that the larger IEL one-man saws were coming out and then transitioning to the Pioneer
brand. I talked to a guy here that I met on Craigslist who had been an IEL/Pioneer distributor (he'd also been a Titan
saw dealer) and he told me he couldn't compete with the lighter and newer Macs and Homies (like Lee mentioned,
weight and cost were the big factors.) Another factor was how easily Mac and Homie were making it at the time to
become a dealer so many mom and pop hardware stores were able to start carrying national-branded chainsaws with
a relatively small investment. The little town where I grew up (population 6-800) even had its' own long-time Homelite
dealership which operated out of the back of a hardware store. There was even a general store in a tiny little
community up in the mountains northeast of us that was a Mac/Homie dealer. The guy that ran that store was a local
legend, cutting timber by day and then running down and operating the store and servicing saws until late at night,
seven days a week. He also sold White's brand boots.

The retired dealer I talked to was a distributor for IEL/Pioneer, Titan, and Power Machinery/Canadien in Wilsonville, Or.,
which is a suburb of sorts for Portland. So he had a large population base to work with, but he still had trouble
disseminating those brands. At the time I met him in 2009, he was 95 going on 96 and he sold me several used saws
and boxes of PM/Canadien and IEL parts.

Like yourself Chris, I've been chasing these saws for years. I almost had a member here talked out of one but he's
too smart and decided to hang onto it (I would have too if I were him.) However, you should have good luck if you
look around Tasmania. IEL/Pioneer and PM/Canadien were very popular brands in Tasmania. A lot of my old issues
of Chainsaw Age magazine document the export in large quantities of those brands to Tasmanian dealers and there's
numerous articles on the falling of big timber in Tas and the northeast coast of Ozland.

Thanyou as well JJ - I had always suspected that the Homelite and McCulloch product would have been pretty tough to compete with in that period of rapid growth. I can definitely vouch for the popularity of the Canadien machines out here in Australia. The 270's seem to be everywhere, and a friend turned up a nice 275 just the other day. They are another saw that you do not see too many of these days. The 276 is also a tough machine to locate.

Regards,

Chris.

 

[Kerrya1]

Anyone know of some parts for these? Need air cleaner cover and recoil cover.. Just picked one up but its kinda unknown..ja 12 is only marks under crankcase. The guy was a sheister and had some kind of bar from a mill or harvester bolted to it claiming it was a 2 man and asking 150$ im sure its a runner though and ive got mostly all the early pioneers but never seen one of these

 

[leeha]

Anyone know of some parts for these? Need air cleaner cover and recoil cover.. Just picked one up but its kinda unknown..ja 12 is only marks under crankcase. The guy was a sheister and had some kind of bar from a mill or harvester bolted to it claiming it was a 2 man and asking 150$ im sure its a runner though and ive got mostly all the early pioneers but never seen one of these

What you have is a IEL model JA. The 3 IEL models, JA, JB, and JC have the one piece air filter cover
as the Pioneer has a 2 piece cover. These IEL models do share some parts with the Pioneer 800 but
not all of them. Your JA is a great find. You never see them come up for sale. Good luck on finding parts.

 

[svk]

Here's some pic's of my two 800's. Notice the
to different air filter cover colors.
I believe cbfarmall has an 800 as well.
The one with the brown filter cover actually came
from your home country. I have had it for about
5 years now. The other came from Canada which
iv'e had for about 3 years.


Lee

Those are some nice looking saws Lee. And I am amazed that your pictures from 2012 still load, most were lost in the linkbucks days.

 

[rocketnorton]

ive heard the 800 was the last sandcast alum saw made in the vancouver iel plant, after the omc buyout, iel to pioneer name change, and move to peterborough.
friend just got almost 2 [cases stamped as jc] w/2pc tops. one is complete roller, other missing af & covers. covers on complete one are yellow.
one i had was tagged as 800. brown af cover.

 

[Kerrya1]

What you have is a IEL model JA. The 3 IEL models, JA, JB, and JC have the one piece air filter cover
as the Pioneer has a 2 piece cover. These IEL models do share some parts with the Pioneer 800 but
not all of them. Your JA is a great find. You never see them come up for sale. Good luck on finding parts.

Mine has 2 piece top and ja12 under crank.. Good compression but short the cover and recoil..im diggin through my 550 600 and 650 stuff tomorrow hoping ive got something that swaps over for recoil as it sure looks like my old 600..

 

[leeha]

I'm guessing your top cover was changed sometime in it's life. All the JA, JB, JC saws I have seen
have the one piece top cover. The Pioneer 800 is the only model that had the 2 piece. Yours is
clearly a model JA with it being stamped in the case.

 

[Kerrya1]

Anyone know of some parts for these? Need air cleaner cover

I'm guessing your top cover was changed sometime in it's life. All the JA, JB, JC saws I have seen
have the one piece top cover. The Pioneer 800 is the only model that had the 2 piece. Yours is
clearly a model JA with it being stamped in the case.

The vancouver made saws
and recoil cover.. Just picked one up but its kinda unknown..ja 12 is only marks under crankcase. The guy was a sheister and had some kind of bar from a mill or harvester bolted to it claiming it was a 2 man and asking 150$ im sure its a runner though and ive got mostly all the early pioneers but never seen one of these

I'm guessing your top cover was changed sometime in it's life. All the JA, JB, JC saws I have seen
have the one piece top cover. The Pioneer 800 is the only model that had the 2 piece. Yours is
clearly a model JA with it being stamped in the case.

The dumps here are filled with these saws as ive rescued a few and been given a bunch of others.. Lol nothin but mills and loggers.. I pay for some so karma dont dry my luck..never seen a 125 pioneer so paid a few bucks but last month pulled a nu17 and 450 from the pile.. The 450 ran with a carb kit..the nu primer was toast unfortunately and cant find the rubber puck for it dammit.. Do u know if early 600 recoil fits on ja?

 

[Kerrya1]

The dumps here are filled with these saws as ive rescued a few and been given a bunch of others.. Lol nothin but mills and loggers.. I pay for some so karma dont dry my luck..never seen a 125 pioneer so paid a few bucks but last month pulled a nu17 and 450 from the pile.. The 450 ran with a carb kit..the nu primer was toast unfortunately and cant find the rubber puck for it dammit.. Do u know if early 600 recoil fits on ja?

The dumps here are filled with these saws as ive rescued a few and been given a bunch of others.. Lol nothin but mills and loggers.. I pay for some so karma dont dry my luck..never seen a 125 pioneer so paid a few bucks but last month pulled a nu17 and 450 from the pile.. The 450 ran with a carb kit..the nu primer was toast unfortunately and cant find the rubber puck for it dammit.. Do u know if early 600 recoil fits on ja?

And any modern primers fit these nu and 450's?

 

[cbfarmall]

I'm guessing your top cover was changed sometime in it's life. All the JA, JB, JC saws I have seen
have the one piece top cover. The Pioneer 800 is the only model that had the 2 piece. Yours is
clearly a model JA with it being stamped in the case.

Lee, my JC is two-piece all painted yellow. I think the JC became the 800 with a paint job. Not a lot development went into these saws after the initial model. Even have the IPL for the JC showing the covers.


Chris B.

 

[cbfarmall]

The dumps here are filled with these saws as ive rescued a few and been given a bunch of others.. Lol nothin but mills and loggers.. I pay for some so karma dont dry my luck..never seen a 125 pioneer so paid a few bucks but last month pulled a nu17 and 450 from the pile.. The 450 ran with a carb kit..the nu primer was toast unfortunately and cant find the rubber puck for it dammit.. Do u know if early 600 recoil fits on ja?

I've never seen any other saw with a recoil to match the JA. The center section is a very large Fairbanks Morse setup. The spring is larger than the standard FMs you'll find on your 600s. You need JA, B, C or 800 parts.

Look at the front of the saw by the bar mount. You should find a stamp with the model and serial. Mine is JCxxx

Chris B.

 

[Kerrya1]

Lee, my JC is two-piece all painted yellow. I think the JC became the 800 with a paint job. Not a lot development went into these saws after the initial model. Even have the IPL for the JC showing the covers.


Chris B.

And i assume there may have been stuff leftover when the factory changed hands and could be on the 800.. Whats the 12 mean when its stamped jb12?

 

[cbfarmall]

And i assume there may have been stuff leftover when the factory changed hands and could be on the 800.. Whats the 12 mean when its stamped jb12?

JC12 is a part number I assume. The old IEL system used a letter-number system. My JC bar cover has 'JC339' cast, not stamped. As Pioneers, part numbers were switched to the 6 digit system.

Chris B.

 

[cbfarmall]

Mine has 2 piece top and ja12 under crank..

My JC crankcase has JA12 cast into it. The very same casting has JC1273 stamped right next to the bar mount.

 

[rocketnorton]

the jc my friend just got has jc p/n cast [inside] on rear [2pc] top cover.

 

[cbfarmall]

the jc my friend just got has jc p/n cast [inside] on rear [2pc] top cover.

The top cover is one of the parts unique to the JC and 800.