The Dan Rates The Blakes

[treemandan]

Good instincts and able to hinge poplar limbs out of the canopy. His attitude moves him and pretty quick too. But there is this:

Ekka gonna bust something. Personally I am happy to show you what it looks like.

 

[outofmytree]

I had to look a couple of times but then......

Couldnt rotate 90 degrees around the trunk to get out of the kickback line? If the stem sets back he is gonna have a new smiley on his belly.

And no face cut/kerf/scarf?

 

[treemandan]

Please take note that Blakes is only cutting a section that equals 1 1/2 firewood length there. Ok. Well, not really.
Its a little bit of a bigger deal than what could have been done I have to argue but its probably my analosity that's talking.
Being really not well secured with either the lanyard and the top rope... a misgaff leaning hips back/ torso front and its into the thick of it. Surely an better body position would yeild a bigger cut. A safer cut.
I sometimes let my tope rope and lanyard intertwine on a spar, working them down and keeping both pretty tight when cutting. On backcuts I keep both hands on my ####, arms length, down by my navel making the cut. My cut is usually a about five inches from the support ropes, the top of the log I would be cutting is closer to me since I am up higher.
The " The Landflat" is something the should be strived for I think. Man, did you guys see what he was letting loose. I know I told him he could bomb the stuff but HELL he wrecked the yard under that little maple too. As ya'll can tell I guess Blakes was on a mission but with some more precise notches, better body positioning the yields would be greater as would the safty margins of course.
That was what kinda freaked me. I would say he was trying to be hotshot. I mean ask him about one handing the 26 through again and again, go ahead ask him! My advice to him would be to take more time setting up to make bigger, better cuts so that the time he reaches the bottom the ground crew would have it cleaned up. Go ahead, take your time, you'll get more out each cut and keep them spar ropes tighter.

 

[treemandan]

At least I know I will never tell anybody else to " just chunk it" again. :greenchainsaw:

 

[Blakesmaster]

At least I know I will never tell anybody else to " just chunk it" again. :greenchainsaw:

Sorry 'bout that, dano. I'm not the best at "landflat" with the chunks. I'm getting there though. The "hotshot" comment I take a bit of exception to but we'll let that slide for now. As far as one handing, yup, I do it, under your tutelage I picked up the snap cut which doesn't ( as I'd previously thought ) cut down on production by much. With a bit more practice on that one I'll have it mastered to the point no one will know the difference. This is what I really like about working with others. I was taught the methods I displayed for you but you clued me in on something better/safer. Hope this gives a good bump to the thread so I can receive the severe ass raping I deserve from all the other safety police. Cheers, Ben.

 

[tree md]

If you didn't want him to wreck the yard why didn't you tell him to chuck smaller pieces or use a block?

Personally, I like to take my saw completely out of the kerf and push the chunks off of my snap cut to try to make them land flat. After awhile you can usually know when to give them a little flip to make them land flat from different heights. That comes with experience.

Not to worry blakes, we all had to learn. Take it as constructive criticism.

 

[lumberjack333]

Def pull the saw out of her kerf before snapping chunks off... as for the landflat, usually takes me the first few at the top to get the flip right... then its almost a natural rhythm the rest of the way down... plus i usually leave the pile there if possible to act as a nice crash zone, so bad tosses don't shred the terf.

 

[tree md]

Def pull the saw out of her kerf before snapping chunks off... as for the landflat, usually takes me the first few at the top to get the flip right... then its almost a natural rhythm the rest of the way down... plus i usually leave the pile there if possible to act as a nice crash zone, so bad tosses don't shred the terf.

Careful with that, I had one hit another one and bounce 6 feet into a split rail fence onetime. Had to replace a Cedar rail that was hard to find and not cheap. If I do use anything to cushion the blow I use brush.

 

[tree md]

I've had some bad experience too with chunks hitting other chunks. I like to have the ground crew build a perimeter with the early chunks to contain the larger chunks when they come down.

I learned to do tree work on land as flat as a pancake. Here in Georgia some of the yards have such steep slopes that a chunk can take off on it's own and cause damage. I got a piece of an aluminum fence last year with a rolling chunk.....about $150 in parts and a few hours of my time to repair but probably would have cost $500. for a fence company to do fix it. My ground man ran after it but could stop it. Watching him I was worried he would get injured and cost me even more!


Back to the snap cut for control....sometime I kind of roll them off the side to get the chunk to land flat. Watch for root flairs.

I've got a condo complex that I do all the tree work for. They have a lot of units that are below some of my work areas where I am like 10-20 feet above, separated by a retainer wall. I have my ground hands build a barricade of brush before I start dropping chunks in there to keep them from rolling off and damaging ornamental trees, lawn ornaments and various other odds and ends below. I took a pine down last year there and the barricade worked great. Got chunked all the way down with no incidence and my groundy dropped the stump cut over the wall taking out a planter...

 

[Blakesmaster]

It's good to see you guys getting along. Looks like it's been a learning experience all the way around!

No need for that fan, Treeco, we're all friends here.

Prior to working with the Dan we always just held the kerf open with one hand while we powered through with the other hand on the saw. ( as pictured ) Once through the other side, rock the wood a bit with your one hand and extract the saw with the other, then push the piece off. Works well, but is quite dangerous. I've switched to using a snap cut which allows me to keep both hands on the saw at all times as well as more control of the piece to aid in "landflat".

The Dan mentions intertwining your flipline and climbline for added safety and comfort but I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with that one. The reason I started keeping my climbline around the spar while chunking down was in case I cut my flipline with the saw I still have something to catch me. If they're intertwined you lose that advantage because you're more likely to cut through both at the same time.

Looking at that pic again it does look like I have my flipline a bit too long putting my hips back further than need be. I like the Dan's idea of snugging that up and cutting closer to the waist level instead of at chest height which I'll give a shot at today.

Keep the comments coming and the tempers cool and this could be a very good learning thread for newbies and oldies who implement unsafe habits.

 

[outofmytree]

No need for that fan, Treeco, we're all friends here.

Prior to working with the Dan we always just held the kerf open with one hand while we powered through with the other hand on the saw. ( as pictured ) Once through the other side, rock the wood a bit with your one hand and extract the saw with the other, then push the piece off. Works well, but is quite dangerous. I've switched to using a snap cut which allows me to keep both hands on the saw at all times as well as more control of the piece to aid in "landflat".

The Dan mentions intertwining your flipline and climbline for added safety and comfort but I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with that one. The reason I started keeping my climbline around the spar while chunking down was in case I cut my flipline with the saw I still have something to catch me. If they're intertwined you lose that advantage because you're more likely to cut through both at the same time.

Looking at that pic again it does look like I have my flipline a bit too long putting my hips back further than need be. I like the Dan's idea of snugging that up and cutting closer to the waist level instead of at chest height which I'll give a shot at today.

Keep the comments coming and the tempers cool and this could be a very good learning thread for newbies and oldies who implement unsafe habits.

Hey mate. It's great to see you looking at your work habits and finding better/safer ways.

I block down using the saw at 90 degrees to my body. I also insist on 2 seperate and distinct TIP's whenever the saw is running for similar reasons to the ones you have mentioned. At about 2.40 in this vid you can see Adam blocking out a Norfolk Pine at 90degrees and with his lifeline girth hitched to the trunk below his lifeline. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBKeak7IJOg

I have been pulled up for my own bad habits before and if you take it the right way as you have done, it improves your skills out of sight.

 

[NCTREE]

I'm a little confused at what you guys call a snap cut. I've been taught a snap cut is when you come in from both sides passing each others cut leaving space between each cut, put the saw away and snap it off and throw it down.

I notch mostly all wood on a spare using a thin notch. I make my back cut until I can move the piece with my hand. I either back my saw out or even put it away before I push it over. It might add a minute here and there to production but not enough to make a difference.

If i'm taking big chunks then I def. notch and even put a tag line in the top. I saw that log lifter device, I could get a tag line in the top, notch and cut faster then that device. Seems like a pain to carry around in the tree, I'd rather let my ground guys do the work while I do what I do, cutting and chunking.

I can see from the picture that he has no notch which could be dangerous too if it peels down his lanyard pulling him in towards that revving chainsaw. I only use this cut on smaller pieces that have a heavy lean towards the direction i'm felling it in which I want it to peel back towards the trunk away from an obstacle. I'm never directly tied into that spare either, still tied into the main TIP.

 

[lumberjack333]

Back to the chunk on chunk bounce off's.... yes brush is a better much better landing pad than logs, but I don't let too much fly when its close enough for anything to take a bad bounce into a target... sometimes things just go awry with or without a landing pad. Control is key in those situations, and a free falling piece of tree is generally not in control at all....

I actually have a job tommorow, 3ft dia red oak removal on a waterfront property, the whole back side of this house i large glass windows and glass on all the deck rails. Going to be a tricky one for sure. Was thinking of having a horizontal line run through two trees above the spar and using a 3 to 1 pulley system to lift the pieces off in small chunks, move to the side and lower into the bobcat's bucket... There is literally a 10x10ft landing area between the aluminum fence, deck and stairs down to the boathouse. Should bring a camera tommorow me-thinks.

 

[Blakesmaster]

Should bring a camera tommorow me-thinks.

I'd say, sounds like a cool job!

When I chunk down a spar I generally have the ground guys set up a perimeter like Treeco suggested earlier. On top of that I usually have them move the pieces in my drop zone as they come out of the tree for two reasons. One, it makes it much easier to avoid accidentally hitting a chunk that is already on the ground and taking a big bounce into something and two, it means that I'm only pounding a very small section of turf repeatedly instead of a larger area at the base of the tree.

 

[treemandan]

Intertwined like when you are spiking down to nestle into a good spot for the next cut. You just hold both ropes and go in reverse working the ropes both at once til you find that nice spot. Then keep the top rope over the lanyard and tuck them under a bump on the trunk keeping the tope rope as tight as possible. keep it close and tight.
if you methodically repeat it well then you should have no fear of cutting either rope. Well, you should always be aware of what you are cutting. I would say most rope cutting accidents have been the result of either :

1. inexperiance
2. stupidity ( gratuitous manouvers)
3. being exhausted and forgetting or other mental thing

Follow through with the set up in every new cutting position, doing that help keep you on the good side of CYCLES TO FAILURE. Think about that. Everything and evryone has it, CTF. How many? Boggles the mind. I would tell you my CTF but I am afraid to scare ya.

Find that nice spot to get neslted in , you want to make the cut count, you want minimum impact all across the board. The land flat puts in down and it stops it, all energy absorbed, gotta wait for it to be cleared sometimes so the next one don't bounce off the first. If you can control a piece to land flat with just a backcut then go for it. Works great and is easy as pie. To get a chunk off with a snap break and then kinda push or hold the butt so it stays horizantal as it drops. That is the easy way to get them flat. You need both hands to break and steer and also lean a little over the spar. You can play with it for a minute second.
When I sent out half the pine in my last post I pushed as hard as I could on the butt, good thing I did. I nub sticking out just caught the edge of the drive. No problem though but if it had hit more towards the center of the drive? He would have had a hole in there. I would say I moved it a foot and a half. Which is pretty good for a guy like me and it was half the tree.

 

[tree md]

Back to the chunk on chunk bounce off's.... yes brush is a better much better landing pad than logs, but I don't let too much fly when its close enough for anything to take a bad bounce into a target... sometimes things just go awry with or without a landing pad. Control is key in those situations, and a free falling piece of tree is generally not in control at all....

I actually have a job tommorow, 3ft dia red oak removal on a waterfront property, the whole back side of this house i large glass windows and glass on all the deck rails. Going to be a tricky one for sure. Was thinking of having a horizontal line run through two trees above the spar and using a 3 to 1 pulley system to lift the pieces off in small chunks, move to the side and lower into the bobcat's bucket... There is literally a 10x10ft landing area between the aluminum fence, deck and stairs down to the boathouse. Should bring a camera tommorow me-thinks.

Definitely bring the camera! opcorn:

 

[tree MDS]

I keep my lanyard on top when chunking and the climb line below, separated a bit.

I dont think I saw anyone mention logs with a bend in them - those are the ones you really gotta watch because if the bend hits just right the momentum acts like a catapult and the log goes flying. I usually cut those in two. Also I make sure everyone makes eye contact before I make the cut and I make sure to get them the heck out of the way.

 

[tree md]

I keep my lanyard on top when chunking and the climb line below, separated a bit.

I dont think I saw anyone mention logs with a bend in them - those are the ones you really gotta watch because if the bend hits just right the momentum acts like a catapult and the log goes flying. I usually cut those in two. Also I make sure everyone makes eye contact before I make the cut and I make sure to get them the heck out of the way.

That's why I don't like to bounce chunks. Don't want to take one of my groundies out with one. I have seen them bound 20' before. Definitely make sure all heads are up before dropping a chunk.

 

[lumberjack333]

Well folks the Oak went beautifully... unfortunalty I didn't have the camera either day, all I got was a snap with my cell of the flush cut at the end of the second day. Took my time with it, getting the crown out was the easy part, it really made me appreciate the 200T when I got down into the biger limb chunks/spar... I was only able to use the 260 for about 5 cuts then I used the 361/w a 20" bar for the rest of the tree. (The next biggest saw my boss has is an 880 so the 361 was about the only option.) the flush cut at the ground was 56" dia. Spent 6hrs on the second day just getting the wood out of the damn thing, all came down on ropes: running bowline to half hitch, falsecrotched into a steel block down to the porta-wrap. By far the largest tree I've done since I got into this, really made me appreciate what I've seen some people do up to this point.

Everything said and done.... I love my :censored: job!

 

[lumberjack333]

Got a few pics, was back at the job today throwing some paint on to cover up a wound left from some entangled braches on the removal :s... finally had my camera so I snapped a few pics.

A shot of the stump that was left, those stairs going down to the lake are 4ft wide to give a little perspective on size.

The wound at the last main crotch in the neighboring oak, much smaller than the removal.

Since the tallest crotch was blown out and the leader was compromised I used a few slings and ******* to work my way up the last few feet to the wound... thought I'd throw that in for consideration.