The Dangerous Art of Catching Big Wood

[jomoco]

jomoco, I do round the edges of the notch pocket, the rig may be 180deg or less depending on setup.

the bull ride you talk about, honestly if you have a good groundie runnin ropes the climber wont take that beat ya to a pulp ride your talking about. In big wood "spars" that I have done & my other climber has done there is barely any whiplash ride, just the big conking sound when the wood hits the side of the spar!!!!

theres a ton of ways to chunk down, experiment on smaller stuff & find what technique you like & use it!!!!


LXT.....................

While I agree that letting small and medium loads run in a smooth gentle manner considerably lessens the severity of the ride, trying to let truly big wood in the 500-750 pound range run is a recipe for disaster that usually results in snapped bull lines and crushed targets or worse.

The title of this thread mentions catching BIG wood, and a three foot long 40 inch diameter piece of green conifer can easily weight between 5-700 pounds.

The only way that I know of safely catching wood in that size range is to do everything possible to reduce the amount of drop by pretensioning the bull line with the hobbs, and keeping the respective two rigging attachment points as close together as possible while still maintaining secure attachment points, which we have already discussed.

Letting the kinetic energy of big wood increase as it falls is a huge mistake.

If I am mistaken in my logic on this issue, I am perfectly willing and anxious to be corrected and set straight as soon as possible.

Respectfully,

jomoco

 

[woodchux]

When I am blocking down a spar with a significant lean, I will cut my notch, then use a plunge cut to set up the hinge leaving a small holding strap of wood on the backcut. Then i'll use my saw and sever the trigger strap. If i feel that i'm gonna go for a big ride i'll keep the chainsaw in my hand so it doesn't swing around violently. Ive blocked down alot of trees and the worst rides ive been on were always tall skinny trees, Not so much on the bigger wood if you let it run.

 

[D Mc]

LXT and Jomoco, You both bring up good points. Lxt's reference to the team work required between climber and groundsmen handling the bull line often gets lost in our (the climbers') chest thumping. But there is nothing quite so reassuring as knowing that there is an experienced person handling that line.

I took 25' off the top of a redwood (Sequoia semperviren) while standing just under the 200' mark on the spar. This was something I really did not want to do. But the reason for the removal was that the redwood was growing amongst cabins (ruining foundations) and there was just no place I could safely put that top. I was able to reassure myself that my groundman was the best I had worked with. But when the weight of the top came on the end of the line, I thought that tree would never stop bending. Easily 35' out; I looked down and it wasn't bending like a fishing pole. It actually had a double S bend in it; kind of like a shock wave going up a rope. Really felt my groundsman saved the day on that one.

I think it is important to note that there comes a point on almost all blocking down removals where even if you can get away easing the high stuff down, you still have to deal with those last 2 to 4 chunks. So any techniques we can learn to help us through these most dangerous cuts are beneficial.

My preferred technique on heavy wood is to top tie the chunk so a grounds person can pull it off. This allows me to use a very small face cut so the log won't travel out away from the tree as much. I don't like carrying wedges and it is tiring enough just making the cuts and doing the work let alone try to push off 700 lbs of mean log at the end of the set.

I am right handed and my saw is clipped on to my right hip with a long lanyard. If a piece starts to move before anticipated, I will hit the kill switch and chain brake simultaneously and quickly drop the chain saw on my left side. This gives it a short drop as it's lanyard rests against my flip line. This keeps it close to my body and out of the way of the wood. This also allows me to get my hands on the spar quickly for the impact brace. This is a rare occurance because usually you can tell when the big chunks are going.

D Mc

 

[jomoco]

LXT and Jomoco, You both bring up good points. Lxt's reference to the team work required between climber and groundsmen handling the bull line often gets lost in our (the climbers') chest thumping. But there is nothing quite so reassuring as knowing that there is an experienced person handling that line.

I took 25' off the top of a redwood (Sequoia semperviren) while standing just under the 200' mark on the spar. This was something I really did not want to do. But the reason for the removal was that the redwood was growing amongst cabins (ruining foundations) and there was just no place I could safely put that top. I was able to reassure myself that my groundman was the best I had worked with. But when the weight of the top came on the end of the line, I thought that tree would never stop bending. Easily 35' out; I looked down and it wasn't bending like a fishing pole. It actually had a double S bend in it; kind of like a shock wave going up a rope. Really felt my groundsman saved the day on that one.

I think it is important to note that there comes a point on almost all blocking down removals where even if you can get away easing the high stuff down, you still have to deal with those last 2 to 4 chunks. So any techniques we can learn to help us through these most dangerous cuts are beneficial.

My preferred technique on heavy wood is to top tie the chunk so a grounds person can pull it off. This allows me to use a very small face cut so the log won't travel out away from the tree as much. I don't like carrying wedges and it is tiring enough just making the cuts and doing the work let alone try to push off 700 lbs of mean log at the end of the set.

I am right handed and my saw is clipped on to my right hip with a long lanyard. If a piece starts to move before anticipated, I will hit the kill switch and chain brake simultaneously and quickly drop the chain saw on my left side. This gives it a short drop as it's lanyard rests against my flip line. This keeps it close to my body and out of the way of the wood. This also allows me to get my hands on the spar quickly for the impact brace. This is a rare occurance because usually you can tell when the big chunks are going.

D Mc

You're a brave man to catch a 25 foot unbrushed top of a coast redwood from that high, I'm glad it worked out ok for you.

I myself would have pussed out and finished brushing it, then caught the wood in smaller lighter sections. The longest big bull line I have is a 300 footer. When I'm lowering from over 150 feet I use a 600 foot long smaller 5/8 line and take little wimpy 2-300 pound pieces regardless of whether its brush or wood.

It seems that the higher off the ground I get in those tall monster conifers, the more conservative I become about the size and weight of my loads to be lowered.

I'm just glad I'm still alive and climbing.

Good points by both you and Woodchux.

jomoco

 

[oldirty]

.

I took 25' off the top of a redwood (Sequoia semperviren) while standing just under the 200' mark on the spar. This was something I really did not want to do. But the reason for the removal was that the redwood was growing amongst cabins (ruining foundations) and there was just no place I could safely put that top. I was able to reassure myself that my groundman was the best I had worked with. But when the weight of the top came on the end of the line, I thought that tree would never stop bending. Easily 35' out; I looked down and it wasn't bending like a fishing pole. It actually had a double S bend in it; kind of like a shock wave going up a rope. Really felt my groundsman saved the day on that one.


D Mc

this right here is for sure some of the ballsiest stuff i have read and tried to imagine happening.

hardcore D Mc. i like it. alot.



oldirty

 

[woodchux]

Check out the video in this link.

http://www.mojoflix.com/Video/Catapulted-From-The-Tree.html

Tie in good and tight when you're gonna ride the bull.

 

[Slvrmple72]

Woodchux, good video post! I have seen that one before and the one thing I keep thinking is that if he had put more slack into his line going up to the other part of the tree he would not have been flung off.
As for the rest of you crazy:censored: ,you set a whole new standard for the pucker factor! I am in awe at your bravery and confidence in those tall westcoast trees. I dont get the big wood on spars so much as the large heavy limb that is nearly horizontal over the house requiring double rigging set-ups and good team communication, but it is still impressive to the customer and other homeowners when we cut that sucker loose, ( I finish with a handsaw ) swing it away from the property, and drop it to the ground. A lot of setup involved for a few minutes of excitement but I think I have only flirted with about the 400# mark.

 

[clearance]

Fine line between brave and stupid.
I one hand, freeclimb and fastcut sometimes, now I work around power all the time, but the difference is, and its a big one, I control what I do, I rely on myself.
You guys are betting your lives on the structural integrity of the tree, a guess which you have no control over. You are gambling, and you know it.
Good luck to you, all I can say other than that is please try to take smaller pieces.

 

[ropensaddle]

Fine line between brave and stupid.
I one hand, freeclimb and fastcut sometimes, now I work around power all the time, but the difference is, and its a big one, I control what I do, I rely on myself.
You guys are betting your lives on the structural integrity of the tree, a guess which you have no control over. You are gambling, and you know it.
Good luck to you, all I can say other than that is please try to take smaller pieces.

Actually it is not a guess it is knowing limits and staying under them.
Modulus of rupture or the breaking strength of green wood can be
measured and has I have a chart and weight same applies!
Gear limits are known I don't understand the guess you speak!
I however don't push the envelope as much as I did when younger!

 

[jomoco]

It's always a good idea to know how much different species of wood weigh if you intend to catch it. It's amazing how much more hardwoods like euc, elm or oak weigh when compared to softwoods like pine, cedar and fir. Of course live green wood can weigh twice what dead dry wood does in some species as well.

To get a better idea of what I'm saying here, go to the log weight calculator on the link below and punch in western cedar in the 40 inch diameter range at 3 feet long, then run the same dimensions again using live oak.

http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/calculators/calc.pl?calculator=log_weight

Kind of an eye opener aint it!

jomoco

 

[hornett22]

i just started using tenex straps this year.

anyone have any bad experiences with them? so for i like them.

 

[D Mc]

Fine line between brave and stupid.
I one hand, freeclimb and fastcut sometimes, now I work around power all the time, but the difference is, and its a big one, I control what I do, I rely on myself.
You guys are betting your lives on the structural integrity of the tree, a guess which you have no control over. You are gambling, and you know it.
Good luck to you, all I can say other than that is please try to take smaller pieces.

Clearance, your comments are well received by me and I believe they have merit. There is a very fine line between bravery and taking stupid risks. What we do is dangerous. I'm often asked how can I do what I do with it being so dangerous. And the thing is if you truly know what you are doing it becomes less dangerous; less risk taking and more calculating. I have been doing this a long time and I have always used what many consider risky techniques, one handing, free climbing, cut and chuck. These techniques are extremely dangerous if performed improperly or without (my favorite phrase here) situational awareness. It is such a simple phrase that encompasses so much. That awareness alone will keep you out of trouble more than your chainsaw proof pants, your hardhat, your steel core rope ever could hope to.

The other point I would like to make when you are faced with a calculated risk that affects your life don't forget, it affects YOUR LIFE. You have control. Once you have made that choice, it becomes history. There is no going back.

D Mc

 

[jomoco]

Clearance, your comments are well received by me and I believe they have merit. There is a very fine line between bravery and taking stupid risks. What we do is dangerous. I'm often asked how can I do what I do with it being so dangerous. And the thing is if you truly know what you are doing it becomes less dangerous; less risk taking and more calculating. I have been doing this a long time and I have always used what many consider risky techniques, one handing, free climbing, cut and chuck. These techniques are extremely dangerous if performed improperly or without (my favorite phrase here) situational awareness. It is such a simple phrase that encompasses so much. That awareness alone will keep you out of trouble more than your chainsaw proof pants, your hardhat, your steel core rope ever could hope to.

The other point I would like to make when you are faced with a calculated risk that affects your life don't forget, it affects YOUR LIFE. You have control. Once you have made that choice, it becomes history. There is no going back.

D Mc

Very well said, and right on point about situational awareness combining with experience to form the primary ingredients of a successful career.

I watched the video of that dude posted by Woodchux, and just shook my head in disgust at how unnecessary and boneheaded what he did really was, he's very lucky he wasn't killed or seriously injured, he obviously needs some professional training quickly, or find another way to make a living.

jomoco

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

To get a better idea of what I'm saying here, go to the log weight calculator on the link below and punch in western cedar in the 40 inch diameter range at 3 feet long, then run the same dimensions again using live oak.

http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/calculators/calc.pl?calculator=log_weight

Kind of an eye opener aint it!

jomoco

I'd like to see the database for the wood-weights

I figure light wood is 55# medium 60 and heavy is 65.

(Pi*r2))55)3ft

Pi = 3.141592
r =1.667ft


3.142*2.779=9.481*3=27.543*55=1515

(3*3)*3)55=1485 which is why I do not like rounding to much if I have a calculator, 30# here, but the variance is exponential not linear.

It looked like the wood weight sticky got unstuck just in time for me to do this math

 

[joesawer]

As for using wedges to keep the kerf open while finishing the cut, I prefer to ream the cut and let the kerf close behind the saw bar. I prefer a 32" bar to a longer one as it is about all that I can comfortably ream with in a tree.
To help short fat pieces tip off the spar I will often make a deep narrow face cut, if it is close to the center the piece will tip fairly easy. I will make the face cut, then rig the piece with the bull line going across the center of the face. Then make the back cut. Starting on the off side cut all the way through leaving no hinge on the off side, as the cut comes around to the hinge on the near side and the piece starts to set down, start reaming the cut. If it is balanced right you can cut the hinge all the way off and the piece will just sit on top off the spar while you put up the saw and get prepared to push it off. Even on a leaning spar you can look at the balance points and cut it like this very often.
I prefer to use a port-a-wrap. Pull all the slack that the ground men can out and when it hits the wrap let it run some. It hits the wraps pretty hard and slows down from that point until it stops, It should not be accelerating any after it hits the wraps. I have caught much more weight by decelerating it with wraps than the rigging would ever stop suddenly.
I have also used speed line rigs at a steep angle to let the piece fall with the speed line only having to change the direction slightly to make sure that the piece landed in the drop zone and did not bounce or roll out of control.