i have a friend up the street who gets 4-5 cords a year with his car.on his way home he stops and gets wood on the side of the road all year long. one old small saw,and splits it all by hand.i am impressed at how little his cost are.
The Economy of Wood Heat
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Any price of crude below $85 --$ 100 per barrel is going to hurt the industry. Exploration & drilling is a multi-billion $ business.
If this continues we're going to see a lot of layoffs
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
That will be the least of it. We were already approaching the point where the price the economy could tolerate wasn't high enough to pay for extracting this hugely expensive oil, with investors running for the exits or losing their shirts. This game of chicken with Russia may kick it over the edge.
Off topic, but a couple of posts in this thread bring to mind some issues I ponder once in a while:
Do White Heathens co-exist peacefully with the neighboring Mahometans?
Is the Urbanization of Champaign a problem?
Why isn't Fulton in Fulton County, or Clinton in Clinton County?
( I grew up in Illinois, by the way.)
Do White Heathens co-exist peacefully with the neighboring Mahometans?
Is the Urbanization of Champaign a problem?
Why isn't Fulton in Fulton County, or Clinton in Clinton County?
( I grew up in Illinois, by the way.)
Dalmatian90
Addicted to ArboristSite
Game of chicken? It's an all-out cockfight in what is probably the first skirmish of a new cold war.
The Saudis are quite happy pumping like there is no tomorrow right now -- it is putting the economic screws to Iran during the nuclear talks, it is revenge on the Russians for supporting Assad in Syria, politically they're helping the Americans on the world stage while simultaneously commercially keeping the American & Canadians from taking any bigger piece of the pie.
Dalmatian90
Addicted to ArboristSite
Why is East Hampton, CT thirty miles west of Hampton, CT?
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
But SA is not in the position they were the last time we pulled this maneuver to damage the USSR economy. SA is past peak, with a huge water cut - they are pumping water with a thin stain of oil. I doubt they can keep it up long enough. And all the while Russia builds stronger ties with Asia.
It's a hell of a show - I wonder how many realize the magnitude of what is happening?
spike60
Addicted to ArboristSite
You can poke a calculator until you come up with whatever numbers you want to support your own preferred point of view. So, each of us, in our own reality are correct in that sense. But there's more going on here than just the math. I don't really buy into the "factor in your time" part of the equation though. Not unless you measure every one of your leisure/spare time activities with the same yardstick. Is every hour of every day allotted by whether or not you could be making money?
I live smack in the middle of a hardwood forest. I'm surrounded by wood. I've never paid for a stick of wood. The whole firewood thing is a good fit with the chainsaw hobby that many of us share. Those two activities are what I like to call "mutually supporting". The firewood is a usefull byproduct of being a saw geek, and cutting that wood allows me to play with the saws. Obviously there is some cost in procuring the wood, so it's not completely free. But.........it's awful close.
I figure I save $3000+ a year heating with wood.
Then there's all the other stuff that guys have been pointing out. Excercize, energy independence, heat when the power goes out., getting together with some friends to cut wood, and just plain enjoying the entire process. I have to think that nearly all of us on this board get some enjoyment from this process otherwise we wouldn't be spending all this time here discussing it. It's so much more than just the cold hard numbers.
I live smack in the middle of a hardwood forest. I'm surrounded by wood. I've never paid for a stick of wood. The whole firewood thing is a good fit with the chainsaw hobby that many of us share. Those two activities are what I like to call "mutually supporting". The firewood is a usefull byproduct of being a saw geek, and cutting that wood allows me to play with the saws. Obviously there is some cost in procuring the wood, so it's not completely free. But.........it's awful close.
I figure I save $3000+ a year heating with wood. Then there's all the other stuff that guys have been pointing out. Excercize, energy independence, heat when the power goes out., getting together with some friends to cut wood, and just plain enjoying the entire process. I have to think that nearly all of us on this board get some enjoyment from this process otherwise we wouldn't be spending all this time here discussing it. It's so much more than just the cold hard numbers.
brenndatomu
Hey you woodchucks, quit chucking my wood!
I'd tell your buddy to send that suckah down the road! Seems there are plenty of future wood slaves waiting in line for a "good deal" on a used OWB, so I would think they should be able to recoup most of their initial "investment", then insulate and install a stove as you said...
I would say it all depends on many factors. such availability, type of wood and cost to process what you need.
And of course your time.
Id say some years it makes no difference, other years there can be a big savings to wood heat.
On a health note, your most likely to be in much better physical condition gathering and storing your own wood.
Economically, your off the grid, and that is worth a lot to me.
Amateurs probably lose money till they get the hang of how to process proficiently, Once one get experienced and has common since and have learned a better way do much better.
When they call up and say I'm cold can you sell me some firewood, I say sure. Then they hear the price and all of the sudden they think your trying to rip them off.
I tell there fat ***** to go find haul cut split and stack and season your own wood and then get back to me and tell me how I am ripping you off.
Pay the price or go somewhere else where the prices are all the same. Or stay cold, I don't care.
It reminds me of the grasshopper and the ant.
Dennis
And of course your time.
Id say some years it makes no difference, other years there can be a big savings to wood heat.
On a health note, your most likely to be in much better physical condition gathering and storing your own wood.
Economically, your off the grid, and that is worth a lot to me.
Amateurs probably lose money till they get the hang of how to process proficiently, Once one get experienced and has common since and have learned a better way do much better.
When they call up and say I'm cold can you sell me some firewood, I say sure. Then they hear the price and all of the sudden they think your trying to rip them off.
I tell there fat ***** to go find haul cut split and stack and season your own wood and then get back to me and tell me how I am ripping you off.
Pay the price or go somewhere else where the prices are all the same. Or stay cold, I don't care.
It reminds me of the grasshopper and the ant.
Dennis
By the way I had 45 calls for firewood just today alone.
Why do these people wait till it gets cold before ordering wood?
Two thing are a guaranty about the weather. It gets hot in the summer and cold in the winter.
These are the very people that will beg plead and steal when the **** hits the fan.
They don't look ahead or paperer for it even though they know its coming.
I say let them suffer.
Why do these people wait till it gets cold before ordering wood?
Two thing are a guaranty about the weather. It gets hot in the summer and cold in the winter.
These are the very people that will beg plead and steal when the **** hits the fan.
They don't look ahead or paperer for it even though they know its coming.
I say let them suffer.
Big_Wood
westcoast dweller
my house is heated with geo-thermal through the floors and a swear it costs no more then $15 a month just to run the heat exchanger and circulation fan. takes a while to adjust the heat because it takes so long to heat up or cool down but once it's set right i'm laughing. floors always be nice and toasty, air always be just right and i can set every separate room to be a different temp. i only sell wood these days but i do miss burning it for heat.
takes a while to adjust the heat because it takes so long to heat up or cool down but once it's set right i'm laughing. floors always be nice and toasty, air always be just right and i can set every separate room to be a different temp. i only sell wood these days but i do miss burning it for heat.
firebrick43
Life is all about big saws
my house is heated with geo-thermal through the floors and a swear it costs no more then $15 a month just to run the heat exchanger and circulation fan.
How much was the equipment cost?
Big_Wood
westcoast dweller
sub division my house is in was fitted with it before our building was done being built. i believe it was an experiment but it sure worked out. the system is powered by a central circulation pump for the floor heat and then we have an hvac designed to pull heat from the foundation to heat the air. heck, i can be outside in -10c, touch my foundation and it will be toasty warm. a block away there is a field that the geo thermal system is built on. i think they plan on making it a ball field cause nothing can be built on it due to that system being underground there.
My house is extremely insinuated.
before I remodeled I spent over a year gathering up use scrap wood from dumpsters at new housing projects.
Then I used it when i remodeled.
Let me explain. I live in a 1974 festival double wide trailer.
The outside is aluminum siding, then the outer walls are 2x4" with 1" of rolled isolation and a thin 1/8" paneling on the inside.
My AC bills were in the 500 dollar range.
So here is what I did. I guided the whole house down to just studs and the outside siding. I took a bunch of that 1/2 foam board isolation and cut strips and put a layer on the first layer. Then I took 3" rolled batting and covered that. Then I used old pieces of odd shaped plywood and decked over the outer walls. Then I put another layer of the 1/2 foam board over that.
Then i re studded a inner wall of 2x6's and dropped the ceiling down 6'. Then I ran all my electrical and plumbing through the inner walls. Then I used 6" rolled batting and filled the 6' gap between the two walls. I then took the rest of the 1/2 plywood and decked over that. then I used 1/2' sheet rock and finished out the inner walls.
That gave me a 4" fully isolated outer wall and a 6' fully isolated inner wall. The plywood was for keeping the house square and from racking back and forth during hurricane season.
Almost all the material was free and I had t piece it together.
I also use drywall screws on everything, they just hold better then even a ribbed nail. Plus I can take something apart without tearing it up.
I have no idea of what the R value is but my AC bill went down from 500 to 80 dollars a month.
Over kill, Absolutely, but the material was free and it has paid off in thousands over the years.
Lets see the big bad wolf blow my house down now! lol
before I remodeled I spent over a year gathering up use scrap wood from dumpsters at new housing projects.
Then I used it when i remodeled.
Let me explain. I live in a 1974 festival double wide trailer.
The outside is aluminum siding, then the outer walls are 2x4" with 1" of rolled isolation and a thin 1/8" paneling on the inside.
My AC bills were in the 500 dollar range.
So here is what I did. I guided the whole house down to just studs and the outside siding. I took a bunch of that 1/2 foam board isolation and cut strips and put a layer on the first layer. Then I took 3" rolled batting and covered that. Then I used old pieces of odd shaped plywood and decked over the outer walls. Then I put another layer of the 1/2 foam board over that.
Then i re studded a inner wall of 2x6's and dropped the ceiling down 6'. Then I ran all my electrical and plumbing through the inner walls. Then I used 6" rolled batting and filled the 6' gap between the two walls. I then took the rest of the 1/2 plywood and decked over that. then I used 1/2' sheet rock and finished out the inner walls.
That gave me a 4" fully isolated outer wall and a 6' fully isolated inner wall. The plywood was for keeping the house square and from racking back and forth during hurricane season.
Almost all the material was free and I had t piece it together.
I also use drywall screws on everything, they just hold better then even a ribbed nail. Plus I can take something apart without tearing it up.
I have no idea of what the R value is but my AC bill went down from 500 to 80 dollars a month.
Over kill, Absolutely, but the material was free and it has paid off in thousands over the years.
Lets see the big bad wolf blow my house down now! lol
Big_Wood
westcoast dweller
my hydro is $40 a month but we get it in 2 month increments so $80 every 2 months. i'm running alot of **** too. factor in the dollar difference as well and i'm paying just over $30 USD a month our last place was brutal at $350 every 2 months but i would choose to go back to that i think cause i got a huge 2 door garage and 5 bedroom house heated with wood. was some good times. more expensive but alot more fun. houses that heat themselves are annoying convenient but annoying 
i guess it does allow me to sell wood to make extra money rather then burn it though.
our last place was brutal at $350 every 2 months but i would choose to go back to that i think cause i got a huge 2 door garage and 5 bedroom house heated with wood. was some good times. more expensive but alot more fun. houses that heat themselves are annoying convenient but annoying i guess it does allow me to sell wood to make extra money rather then burn it though.
To calculate the R value, you have to add the 1' isolation I left in place, plus the 1/2 foam board and the 3'' of rolled batting.
Then the 1/2 plywood and the other 1/2 foam board I covered that up with. Then factor in 6' more batting and another 1/2 layer of plywood then the 1/2 sheet rock.
Anyone got an idea of the r value?
Then the 1/2 plywood and the other 1/2 foam board I covered that up with. Then factor in 6' more batting and another 1/2 layer of plywood then the 1/2 sheet rock.
Anyone got an idea of the r value?
like you said "over kill" but it must work ... somewhere in the neighbor hood of r 30+ since wood is supposed to not have an r value... 6"@18 +3"@11+1"@2.5+.5"@1+.5"@1=(18+11+2.5+1+1)=33.5 roughly depending on the r of the foam board.....
I'l take a 33% r value over a 3 r value any day.
Thanks for the input.
Thanks for the input.
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