The Great Chain Race

[Walt Galer]

Ok John,

What happened? Your racing chain looks better for production than your former every day chain? I think we may have poisoned your mind! I might suggest doing your gullet filing at 35 degrees across rather than straight across, but this is very academic. Your file witness lines look rather straight across, rather than down at the file handle, but the hook makes up for some of this. Should cut like heck!

I have given some thought as to the "contest", and descided that my problem was at least three fold. First, my filing was pathetic due to the lack of proper filing on the left hand side. Just too rusty to do the job quickly. Secondly, I clobbered the depthgauges on the right due to being too aggressive on that side. And third, I left too much cutter. I thought you might want to "play" with this chain a few times, and recommend you do so! (With that special file I sent you).

There is one more consideration, that I have not gotten a reply to from Carlton's chain engineer as yet, and that is the fact that it seems to be impossible to get a really truely sharp cutting edge on that loop of chain! This quite unlike the Carlton that I have known. In fact, I would say the chrome on that loop is twice too thick! I have asked Carlton about this, but have as yet recieved no reply. I know for a fact that they have started chrome plating their own chain recently, something they have never done before. (They always had a small company in Portland do it, who did a fine job). It is therefore likely they have over done it. If a little is good, a lot should be better right? Wrong, a cutter is never sharper than the chrome is thick. This chain may improve a lot with use, as a result of this, and then die again, next time it is sharpened. A weird effect, but one that is well known to people who are experienced in chain manufacturing. (Chrome is one of the little "secrets" in chain manufacture).

I still owe you a good chain. I'm looking around for who is making it currently, and it is not looking good! I just sold my last good loop with that Jonsereds 90 I had on the auction. I did not want to, but he wanted the bar and chain with it. Since he went over my intended price, I had no choice. (And I should throw in a beer at the Frontier).

Regards,
Walt Galer

 

[tundraotto]

no offense walt, but i find very hard to believe that the reasons you listed amount to the 50% slower chain that you produced compared to art martin.

 

[HUSKYMAN]

In defense of Walt I am sure he is quite rusty and something tells me race filing is not something you decide to do after quitting for 10 years. Of course he should have thought of that before he shot his mouth off

 

[Gypo Logger]

Hi Walt, that is a good idea, and I saw what you were saying at once when you mentioned it about going at 35 degrees instead of 0. I will try the 35 and 35 so the sideplate is as it should be.
I will send you a loop of 72CL so you can have something different to work with. Robyn says hi and may be travelling with me as far as Calgary next week on my way to Clearwater to show Dennis how to cut wood.
Otto, what's this I hear about the cops taking your saw away from you? Dennis told me you were stump jumping your neighbours ornamentals at 3am. Is this true?
John

 

[Gypo Logger]

Hi Walt, I did the 35 & 35 and here's what I came up with. I did something you didnt tell me to, but may have been to agressive with the stone. The aftermath can also be seen on the rivet.
I appreciate all and any input or criticism of my filing techniques.
Thanks in advance.
John

 

[Gypo Logger]

Just another picture of the top and sideplate.
John

 

[Art Martin]

Thanks Walt for the explanation. Now I can see why you were rushed. It would take 48 minutes to spin 240 rivet ends on the chain you sent John (120 on each side of the chain) that left you 12 minutes to grind back 30 teeth, deepen the gullets, re-shape the depth gauges, grind down the tops of the drive links, doggy bone 60 spaces, sharpen 30 teeth, leather strop 30 teeth, and polish off 2 beers. It's a miracle you finished in one hour maximum, even Ron Hartell takes over six hours to make a racing chain. Best regards.
Art Martin

 

[Art Martin]

Thanks Walt for the explanation. Now I can see why you were rushed. It would take 48 minutes to spin 240 rivet ends on the chain you sent John (120 on each side of the chain) that left you 12 minutes to grind back 30 teeth, deepen the gullets, re-shape the depth gauges, grind down the tops of the drive links, doggy bone 60 spaces, sharpen 30 teeth, leather strop 30 teeth, and polish off 2 beers. It's a miracle you finished in one hour maximum, even Ron Hartell takes over six hours to make a racing chain. Best regards.
Art Martin

 

[deadtrees]

gullet filing

Walt, I need an answer. What is John doing with the angle fileing in the bottom of the gullet? It would seem that would crowd the chip to the outside of the tooth where it would jam instead of the center of the tooth where the chip would be freely carried out of the kerf.

 

[sawracr]

Wow from what I see John, I would put a chisel file in th corner of that tooth, with the depth stops that high should cut like crazy

 

[tundraotto]

poor showing walt - not because of your chain, but because of your arrogance in not admitting that your chain was a far cry from arts' - we all know you are very knowledgeable about all that we hold dear to all of us, the chainsaw and everything that goes with it - however i didnt know that you were such a sore loser that you woulndt even offer your congratulations to art martin on his winning chain. poor showing pal.

 

[Gypo Logger]

Hi John, thanks for your input. After I read your post I did what you suggested and came up with this cutter. I find it very hard to mantain control of the file as far as top plate angle if I file to much and end up searching for where the file belongs. You can see the remenants of the hollow ground filing of the 7/32" file. I find it almost impossible to keep the corner in the corner. I used a single bevel Valorbe after I gave up on the double bevel Sandvik.
There are too many angles and it boggles my mind, so I will just use these glorified flat files "gently" to compliment my roundfiling in order to get under the top plate and working corner. My rakers arent as high now so maybe I can really lean into it more. I made a cut this morning in an 8x8 with the previous pictured chain and got thru in about 1.78 with the 385W and 8 pin gear, so I will try with this scroundground chain and see how it cuts with a 7 pin.
Casual readers might just think I know what I am talking about, but I have have a long way to go but with you, Ken, Uncle Art and Walt, I should get there all the sooner.
Thanks again,
John

 

[Gypo Logger]

Sorry about the typo, but I meant to say my rakers arent as low.
John

 

[Gypo Logger]

In My Glory one More Time

Hi There, just thought I would share a picture while I was in My Glory, just one more time.
Remember, the Goldrush isnt over!
Gyroboy

 

[Gypo Logger]

Hi there, here's a picture of my first serious attempt at squareing off with a chain.
Looks pretty Wicked, doesn't it?
John

 

[Dennis]

what did you do? hook up an egg beater with file?

 

[Gypo Logger]

Hi Dennis ya creep, that's what I did!
Here's what's plowin thru your coniferous bug wood.
Gyro

 

[kdhotsaw]

john's square chain

now dennis, quit picking on john lambert and casting doubt on his chain filing methods. were trying to teach him how to square file. if a egg beater works so be it
ken

 

[HUSKYMAN]

Let me get this disclaimer out of the way first. I have never filed a race chain and probably never will be able to

That being said it is quite obvious that he used a ice auger hooked to a dremel tool going at 30000rpms

 

[Gypo Logger]

Your pretty close Huskyman, what I did was get a tiny pipewrench and hooked it on the cutter just like so. This way I can raise and lower raker height as well as tilt the cutter left or right as required. I find that the jaws of the little pipe wrench gouge the cutter just right, but the teeth of the wrench must be filed sharp first.
Ken Dunn disclosed this neat little secret to me, but it must be used in combination with a dial indicator to acheive any continuity.
The Chainsaw Plumber