The most efficent way to buck logs for firewood production.

[SPDRMNKY]

Re: bucking small logs, I was first thinking along the lines of your manual tie-strap idea, but what would be great is if I could somehow modify a log trailer that has grapple and winch, to also include a sacrificial/replaceable wooden bed (chainsaw can kiss it ever now and then without any dramas) and some sort of tie strapping on each set of log support extensions that somehow maintains pressure (tightens up automatically) as the logs move and settle as they are being bucked. I hope that is easy enough to understand.

hydraulics with a float...like on my skidloader

each log support is C-channel instead of tube, and has a small diameter, long throw cylinder in it...attach chain across the logs to corresponding cylinders and set the lever to float...cylinder seal life wouldn't be great though, and all that hose and controls will be spendy.

small atv winches (I think they have a locking clutch) down one side of the trailer would work also...until you nick those taught cables with that monster saw you'd be running

either hydraulics or electronics can be rigged to maintain pressure...I think it would get interesting when they decided they had too much pressure, and decided to release a bit

or

what about a large saw buck (U shaped, not X) that pushed the logs out the back with a large plate. maintain a tight bundle with a garrote of chain that reset before each push, or a large dia grapple...cut billets off the end like an industrial pasta machine (automatic circular or chainsaw)

I dunno man...good discussion.

 

[agstr]

partial cuts

If there's lots of little stuff, do you bundle them and buck with a saw? We have species here that can stay little but are still great for firewood. It's great they don't need splitting either (if they are already pretty dry or there is no major rush to dry them). cut off saws are not particularly portable, but are quick, hardly ever need sharpening, cheap to run, and produce naff-all waste. I'm not championing them over chainsaws, but acknowledging a horses for courses approach may dictate not ruling them out of every scenario, unless you and others consider there are faster, cheaper ways of bucking little stuff with the chainsaw? If so, please sing out as that is what this thread is all about-finding the optimal ways.



Yes, a stack of logs. Buck in the pile or pull that pile apart and get the logs down to ground level where they can't roll or move about so much?



That's what I'm thinking. Load the table with logs, buck many logs with each chainsaw cut, producing more rounds per cut (but at the expense of time and gear to load the tables). From the table, rounds can be rolled onto roller tables or straight onto the splitter table rather than be dropped to ground, stacked on ground or pallets, as this simply means many have to be returned to splitter table height later (double handling and extra effort).



I've noticed there are quite a few logs high that I can cut in one pass without too much binding on the bar/chain. You mentioned above you agree with getting the logs off the pile and down to ground level to buck as it's safer. How would do you do that if faced with a pile of logs? What I'm thinking of here is a slightly modified log trailer with boom whereby the trailer becomes the bucking table and the boom loads the trailer either from the log pile or fallen/trimmed logs, or a winch on the boom can skid logs if the trailer can't get into where the logs are.

I agree, to do it one cut at a time (cut round, then split round) is utterly absurd. but with a log trailer acting as a bucking table, and/or additional tables within the boom's reach, that's a decent amount of rounds to be cut with a tank of gas at a time, for example. It's a matter of extra rods (or some other way - I'm all ears) to hold those loose bucked rounds in-situ until they can be rolled off onto an adjacent roller conveyor or splitter table.

. That's what I find quite interesting about this. Given the same scenario, two guys might approach it differently, but there has to be an optimal way for each scenario and one or both of those guys haven't figured it out or can't afford the gear.
so I'm asking questions, getting ideas, trying to stay open minded but not so open ideas don't 'stick'.

One approach I've tried is to make partial cuts for a log -- I lift the log with a loader onto the trailer and haul to where I split -- I complete the cuts for rounds then transfer to the super splitter at waist height with a hookaroon -- big rounds require a different approach.

 

[esshup]

Another effeciency question, and I realize that the answer might depend on the equipment available.

But, for the average joe that doesn't have a conveyor, or mechanical log lifter, what's the most effecient diameter (or range of log diameter) of log to use for firewood? (if you had a choice).

I can get free wood, but I can be kinda picky too - I can get wood from about 8" dia all the way up to around 50" dia. Yes, that's not a typo. 50" dia.

One place I can use a grapple bucket on a tractor to load the trailer - grapple has about 3,000# capacity. Other place no mechanical equipment is available. I have to buck the logs there to roll them onto the trailer, or buck/noodle in place to pick them up by hand.

 

[zogger]

Another effeciency question, and I realize that the answer might depend on the equipment available.

But, for the average joe that doesn't have a conveyor, or mechanical log lifter, what's the most effecient diameter (or range of log diameter) of log to use for firewood? (if you had a choice).

I can get free wood, but I can be kinda picky too - I can get wood from about 8" dia all the way up to around 50" dia. Yes, that's not a typo. 50" dia.

One place I can use a grapple bucket on a tractor to load the trailer - grapple has about 3,000# capacity. Other place no mechanical equipment is available. I have to buck the logs there to roll them onto the trailer, or buck/noodle in place to pick them up by hand.

To *me* it is the most efficient to take the bulk of the tree. So there is no size preference. It works out better to have different sizes anyway the way I burn, that's how I regulate heater output. I take down to pretty small. I don't have a computerized turbo heater that needs electricity and uses perect topshelf and uniform hardwood splits to work good, I am the "control panel" that regulates things. That means different sizes and species to choose from day to day. Winter is too much of a variable and one size or one species does not fit everything for heating requirements day to day.

Run the smallest fastest saws and just zing it out, milk them trees out, then a medium up to a large saw if required. It's there, it's down, and a quarter of the tree or a little more (rough) doesn't need any splitting This offsets the more cuts per tree, but less handling overall because they can just go right on the stacks and don't have to be rehandled splitting.

Chainsawing is also the most fun part for me (splitting is close, but the sawing gets the nod for topdog), so doing a bit more cutting per tree with the little saws just adds to the pleasure and also adds to the stacks. I like all the "saw time" I get. And it adds up with the BTU counter.

If this was a professional gig, trying to make money, I wouldn't buck up "perfect" sawlogs anyway, would only use tops, branches and crookedy trees, cull trees, etc for firewood.

 

[redheadwoodshed]

This is how I do it: I go to the mill about a mile down the road at 3:00 p.m. during the week.That's what time they stop sawing and start cleaning up, loading the deck for tomorrow etc. The fellow who scales the logs will also runs the loader for the deck and keeps the log yard tidy.He keeps all the cull logs off to the side and saves all the hickory and pecan for me.So he loads my trailer with a nice load of big logs.Nothing under 30". It normally takes about and hour to run down to the mill and load and then about 3 hours for me to drag them off.My woodyard is on the edge of a hill so I try to unload the logs around this edge.The following day I buck the whole load and start splitting.I move around the yard as I go, that way things don't get too cluttered.Then, if I'm going to stack it, I stack it around the edge as well.When people come to get it, it's easy to get to. The splitter gets moved by an old lawn mower.I have a big shop fan I drag around and a chair I sit in and split. I've tried it were I just haul several loads of logs before I split it up, but I ran out of room, so I just do one at a time. Now if I had a way to stack them, a loader or forklift.I could haul logs all summer, cut and split all winter, and more firewood than anyone, but it would probably rot.I can't sell what I have now.

 

[Greywynd]

I think that 'production' has to be divided into two different types. Personal production, and commercial.

Generally with personal production, the emphasis is on low cost, to offset heating costs of the 'processor'. In this case, guys aren't afraid of sweat equity, and often know they handle the wood more than necessary, but a few extra hours of work and exercise isn't an issue for them, as they enjoy it, and enjoy the savings from it.

With commercial 'production' emphasis is on maximizing profit. In each case this varies. If you have access to reliable, low cost workers, then handling may not be as big an issue. If you don't, an investment in equipment that replaces those workers may be necessary. It might be handling equipment (trucks, trailers, forklifts, loaders, skid steers), or it may be in processing equipment.

Every area is different, and each operation will be different. Often commercial production evolves from personal, so along with that comes the former personal equipment.

In my case for example, I have a saw, an axe, and a splitter that I built, for a minimum cost. I sell the odd cord of wood, but it's basically personal wood for heating. Hiring help, or spending big $$ on equipment doesn't make a lot of sense financially.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

This is how I am doing it for now. There is obviously room for improvement at each stage. You get a system that kind of works, and then a bottleneck becomes obvious. You find a solution, which is always a series of trade offs, and the bottleneck... SURPRISE... does not disappear, it moves. The process repeats again, and again. It is all quite fun... Previously, before the fork lift, I would buck at the cord wood log pile, load the trailer, and pull it to the splitter with a quad. The bucking table and trailer each hold about half a cord. I stack everything, so the conveyor (just out of sight to the right and against the splitter table) is not truly necessary, but it is nice to use. Picked it up used, not something I would have bought new. Buying a piece of equipment falls into the series of trade offs. Buying a fork lift prevents me, temporarily, from upgrading splitters to a SS, but it saves my back from the really heavy stupid stuff we all do, and then wish we hadn't. A good friend said, "You can have anything you want, you just can't have everything you want."View attachment 255822We all work around different circumstances, quite interesting... all the variables.