Skeans
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Here’s some cool info about how the simington got started http://chainsawrepair.createaforum.com/chain/square-grinders/
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The "Not So Pro" discussion thread...of course Pros are welcome!
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Canyon Angler
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REAL WORLD ADVICE QUESTION -- BARBER CHAIRS, HOW OFTEN AND HOW ARE YOU PREVENTING THEM?
Wasn't sure where to put this question -- here or in my "New Logger" thread but here goes --
I did a search and fair amount of reading on the subject here at A/S but for you boys who are falling trees day in and day out ... How often are you running into either barber chairs or situations where you think you'd have a chair if you didn't do something special, like bore or cut around or bind the stem together...
Does this happen much? And what are you doing to minimize the risk of chairing?
Seems like we see a lot of heartwood rot and fungus up high and other weird stuff that might make chairing more common here, I'll have to ask the local loggers.
The more I read about barber chairs, the more they scare the **** out of me...I can just see the tree levering over up high and then falling down around my ears while I try to GTFO there...
Wasn't sure where to put this question -- here or in my "New Logger" thread but here goes --
I did a search and fair amount of reading on the subject here at A/S but for you boys who are falling trees day in and day out ... How often are you running into either barber chairs or situations where you think you'd have a chair if you didn't do something special, like bore or cut around or bind the stem together...
Does this happen much? And what are you doing to minimize the risk of chairing?
Seems like we see a lot of heartwood rot and fungus up high and other weird stuff that might make chairing more common here, I'll have to ask the local loggers.
The more I read about barber chairs, the more they scare the **** out of me...I can just see the tree levering over up high and then falling down around my ears while I try to GTFO there...
hard leaners are hard chairing trees.
various species are more prone to chair then others, alder, hickory, white oak
so first thing is to identify if its a hazzard
second and most important is have very clear escape paths, you need to be able to sprint away if you have to.
Then its a matter of eliminating all causes of a chair, clean face cut no steps in it, bore it if you have to, or use a coos bay though a bore isnt always going to work.
Biggest thing is stay on the high side of the tree, and perpendicular to the direction of fall, so if it does chair it chairs away from you, as well as if it breaks off, gravity gives it a better chance of landing on the opposite side of the stump that you are standing on, and keep your head away from the back cut side, if it looks like a chair tree you cant afford a peek to the off side, when they chair its sudden and violent if your face is in the way its game over.
Now having said all that, chair prone trees are not as common as folks make em out to be, alders here are thick, and can chair, but if you fall em sideways to the natural lean they do ok, but any tree can chair... Anyway think Ive had 3 in the last year or so 1 alder, 1 cotton weed and a doug fir,
Position yourself to take advantage of everything you can and they arent so bad
various species are more prone to chair then others, alder, hickory, white oak
so first thing is to identify if its a hazzard
second and most important is have very clear escape paths, you need to be able to sprint away if you have to.
Then its a matter of eliminating all causes of a chair, clean face cut no steps in it, bore it if you have to, or use a coos bay though a bore isnt always going to work.
Biggest thing is stay on the high side of the tree, and perpendicular to the direction of fall, so if it does chair it chairs away from you, as well as if it breaks off, gravity gives it a better chance of landing on the opposite side of the stump that you are standing on, and keep your head away from the back cut side, if it looks like a chair tree you cant afford a peek to the off side, when they chair its sudden and violent if your face is in the way its game over.
Now having said all that, chair prone trees are not as common as folks make em out to be, alders here are thick, and can chair, but if you fall em sideways to the natural lean they do ok, but any tree can chair... Anyway think Ive had 3 in the last year or so 1 alder, 1 cotton weed and a doug fir,
Position yourself to take advantage of everything you can and they arent so bad
Read the last post on page two.
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/tricky-tree-to-take-down.319996/page-2
Canyon Angler
Addicted to ArboristSite
Thank you for the replies, Northmanlogging and Gologit. That's the kind of info I was hoping for.
Northman, I'm interested in your comment that "alders here are thick, and can chair, but if you fall em sideways to the natural lean they do ok"
How much angle off from the lean are you falling them, roughly and typically? I'm not familiar with that method and will try to read up on it.
Gologit, thanks for that link. Barber chairs must be really scary on big timber like that. I also don't like that you can't look around tree in back OR in front anymore...gotta have x-ray vision, and I can see where it would be easy for a new guy to cut out too much or not enough hinge wood, in the second case increasing chair risk...
Will eventually fall some white oaks up to maybe 28" dbh, and you say they can chair. I see a lot of snags with heart rot here, so that's something I'll need to think about. Do you ever bind together the stem of a high value tree (big WO for example, or walnut) to lessen risk of chairing? If so, what would be used? (Chain, wire rope, big heavy ratchet strap? Dyneema?) Many of these trees will be for lumber so I need them not to break up. (For big WO, I was probably going to climb and drop big limbs first to lessen risk of damage on falling, or getting hung up in other trees, but that's another issue...)
The biggest trees I'll probably be falling will be loblolly pines (a SYP) to maybe 30" dbh. From what I've seen, though, they look like stable, predictable trees...
Thanks again.
Northman, I'm interested in your comment that "alders here are thick, and can chair, but if you fall em sideways to the natural lean they do ok"
How much angle off from the lean are you falling them, roughly and typically? I'm not familiar with that method and will try to read up on it.
Gologit, thanks for that link. Barber chairs must be really scary on big timber like that. I also don't like that you can't look around tree in back OR in front anymore...gotta have x-ray vision, and I can see where it would be easy for a new guy to cut out too much or not enough hinge wood, in the second case increasing chair risk...
Will eventually fall some white oaks up to maybe 28" dbh, and you say they can chair. I see a lot of snags with heart rot here, so that's something I'll need to think about. Do you ever bind together the stem of a high value tree (big WO for example, or walnut) to lessen risk of chairing? If so, what would be used? (Chain, wire rope, big heavy ratchet strap? Dyneema?) Many of these trees will be for lumber so I need them not to break up. (For big WO, I was probably going to climb and drop big limbs first to lessen risk of damage on falling, or getting hung up in other trees, but that's another issue...)
The biggest trees I'll probably be falling will be loblolly pines (a SYP) to maybe 30" dbh. From what I've seen, though, they look like stable, predictable trees...
Thanks again.
If possible, 90 deg from lean is good, the closer to natural lean the more likely the chair.
You could even wedge em over, but its more work.
Climbing and limbing is way more work then its worth.
Personally i haven't bound a tree in years, partly because i have doubts as to the effectiveness, and also if it does chair the chances of catching bits of rigging in yer teeth go way up.
You could even wedge em over, but its more work.
Climbing and limbing is way more work then its worth.
Personally i haven't bound a tree in years, partly because i have doubts as to the effectiveness, and also if it does chair the chances of catching bits of rigging in yer teeth go way up.
Canyon Angler
Addicted to ArboristSite
Thanks Northman, that makes sense.
LOL yikes
"Gonna need a heavier cable next time, ayup"
I need to talk to some local loggers about the challenges/problems we have around here. Also to get some lessons on falling...thanks.
LOL yikes
"Gonna need a heavier cable next time, ayup"
I need to talk to some local loggers about the challenges/problems we have around here. Also to get some lessons on falling...thanks.
Trx250r180
Saw polisher
Practice with smaller trees before do the bigger ones if trying new cuts out .
RandyMac
Stiff Member
'chair 'em for the noise of it
Canyon Angler
Addicted to ArboristSite
Let me guess...POP CRUNCH SQEEEEEK THRUMPSH SNAP ...CRACKLE ...POP THUMP!
InfiniteJest
ArboristSite Operative
RandyMac
Stiff Member
barber chairs are the ultimate fiber pull.
had a cotton weed stall on the face yesterday, nice open face, not much hold wood, should have just broke fibers and tipped but no
chaired it real good
I hates the cottons weeds hateses thems
chaired it real good
I hates the cottons weeds hateses thems
bitzer
******** Timber Expert
Remove as much compression wood as you can before you release the tension wood. Rotten hardwoods don't typically chair. Hickory, white oak, Ash are the worst for chairing in hardwoods. Usually they slab with too small of a face, mismatched cuts, or leaving too much compression wood.
brandonstc6
Addicted to ArboristSite
Why is a MS441 crankcase so hard to split. I had to use a long handle j.h. Williams ratchet on my case splitter and it bent my case splitter badly. Both bearings came out on the crank. I straightened it up but the splitter is still fubared.
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Heat em up and they fall right off, best to drift the dowels out first
Trx250r180
Saw polisher
I am liking the 441 the more i run it ,used to hate em .Did not realize how much a 440 or 660 shook till ran the 441 .
Bucking 101 - I need some more long distance training, this time on bucking. Any tips you can give me on how to keep from loading up the chain when bucking greater than bar length hardwood would be appreciated Threw a chain tonight on very first cut and messed up several drive links of course - new chain of course. So I probably over-tightened the next chain but it still got bounded up with chips - so tight I couldn't break it free in either direction. I am using full comp .404.
Tonight's cutting an oak just over 4'. Didn't do a very good job of matching my cuts.
I keep telling the guys that I am getting too old for the big stuff (talking eastern standards here) but I still get asked - always the same excuse of their saws aren't big enough or their bars aren't long enough. I've tried to illustrate that a 25" bar will cut a big log and even a small saw can cut a lot. No one seems to be listening or watching. So until they do I need to get better at bucking.
Thanks in advance for the advice.
Ron
Tonight's cutting an oak just over 4'. Didn't do a very good job of matching my cuts.
I keep telling the guys that I am getting too old for the big stuff (talking eastern standards here) but I still get asked - always the same excuse of their saws aren't big enough or their bars aren't long enough. I've tried to illustrate that a 25" bar will cut a big log and even a small saw can cut a lot. No one seems to be listening or watching. So until they do I need to get better at bucking.
Thanks in advance for the advice.
Ron
If you're bucking green wood and your bar is constantly buried you might find that skip or semi-skip works better than full comp.
If you're stuck with full comp try easing up in the cut every once in awhile to let the chain clean itself out. You can tell when it's time to do that by the amount of chips you're throwing.
With a short bar try making a run down the far side of the log as deep as you can get it and then cut on your side.
None of this is carved in stone but it always worked pretty good for me.
If you're stuck with full comp try easing up in the cut every once in awhile to let the chain clean itself out. You can tell when it's time to do that by the amount of chips you're throwing.
With a short bar try making a run down the far side of the log as deep as you can get it and then cut on your side.
None of this is carved in stone but it always worked pretty good for me.
Full comp on a long bar likes a taller raker. Big chunky chips get hung up easier that and its a boat load of teeths to drag through anyway.
Otherwise get in the habbit of letting the saw pull itself through, leaning on em just puts more pressure on an overwerked gullet anyway.
A sharp chain and proper raker depth you shouldn't need to lean on it anyway
Otherwise get in the habbit of letting the saw pull itself through, leaning on em just puts more pressure on an overwerked gullet anyway.
A sharp chain and proper raker depth you shouldn't need to lean on it anyway
