The snag from hell

[turnkey4099]

Went out to cut down the snag that caused me to change my mind two weeks ago resulting in taking the mirror off my truck. The 041 is back in service so figured the 24" bar would do the job on the big snag.

The snag was about 20-25' ft tall (top broken out), right at 24" dbh. Problem was a bad lean (around 20 deg by eyeball) altho no problem falling it in that direction. Chained for safety to prevent splitting during the falling.

Made undercut. Due to the lean I made a shallower wedge than normal. On to the back cut, tree starts to go, I back off, tree stops. Step in, cut a bit more, tree now goes but stops when the undercut closes up. Saw also stuck in cut on the tip. Snag now has a 45-50 deg lean. 'Hmm', says I, 'this is not good'. I made a vow years ago that I would never leave a widow maker once I started to cut on a tree.

Worked saw back and forth and finally freed it. Walked around the snag saying to myself that 'this is dangerous'. Mild understatement. Do old trick of having a cup of plasma and hoping it will decide to fall. No good.

Tried the old trick of wrapping cable around butt so pull would tend to roll it. In pickup and a couple jerks, snag doesn't even quiver. More plasma. Back to snag for further inspection. Examination of cut shows that yes, it appears to be cut clear through, as back cut meets or passes the undercut on both sides and looks about even all the way across.

Oookaaay, what is holding this mother? Out to brushy end, yep, one branch about arms thickness. More plasma while hoping it will fall.

Okay, let's get rid of that, it'll fall. Can't cut it as I would be standing under it. Okay, pitch the cable through, Went half way, tried retrieving it with a forked branch - no good. Okay, try this, get the other 40 ft cable, attach two together and walk -way- around, pitch end under log, retrieve and clevis to make a loop, That worked, yanked that branch right out of there.

WHAT!!!, the snag is still standing! Reminds me of a prostitute - no visible means of support.

More plasm. This is getting serious as a shake of the jug shows there can't be but about a half cup left. Bite the bullet and decide to do more cutting. I avoid that if at all possible as I have already had the saw stuck once and have stuck them in the past trying to cut a log off a stump. Barely touch the tip of the bar to the middle of the back cut, not more than a 1" cut and it finally falls after 1 1/2 hours of screwing around and sweating blood.

I wished again that I had had a camera with me.

If anyone is still reading, what would the best method of falling this *$$@^ thing have been?? I have at least one more really bad leaner to do next spring and don't want to go through this again.

Harry K

 

[turnkey4099]

Major correction. The butt was right at 48", not 24". At least my 24" bar just met laying it down from both sides.

Harry K

 

[MasterBlaster]

Next time, drink coffee instead. You'll think clearer.

So, no way to set a rope in it?

 

[buckwheat]

learn to always cut a larger notch. when the tree closes on a small notch, you've stopped the momentum of the fall and negated the benefit of the holding wood. otherwise, it may have fallen right down despite the hung up branch.
rather than pull in the direction that you want, the tree will roll on the stump and fall in the path of least resistance.
for a leaner that size you should have used a bore cut to establish your holding wood and direction of fall, and then cut the remaining outside wood from the outside of the tree.

 

[Marky Mark]

You need to call this guy for help next time.

 

[Marky Mark]

Here's another snag that looks like fun to deal with. This member got banned but there a few who talk to him when he picks up his phone.

I bet Master B would love this job.

 

[Marky Mark]

If you look in this in this picture this joker has leaned another tree against the big on to push it down. What a dope. Next time I see him he'll need a good ol Speed bagg'n. Of course why wouldn't he.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Sheet, I would never be a firefighter.

"THAT'S CRAZY TALK!!!

 

[Chainsaw_Maniac]

If you had not have been able to remove your saw from the tree and it remained stuck then you would have been screwed, if you didn't have another saw with you.

But as you described it, just going about a foot higher and cutting it again would be no problem. You probaly should have done a bore cut in the first place, but you could still do a bore cut the second time (a foot higher).

Whoever said he should have made a bigger notch...aren't you worried that he'll split the tree and get his saw stuck while cutting the notch before he even gets to the back cut?

 

[geofore]

tip stuck

The tip of the saw got pinched in the cut. Ask why it pinched the tip and not the length of the bar. As you cut, do it square to the hinge wood. If you cut the hinge wood furthest from you the weight shifts it pinches the tip of the bar instead of the whole bar. Where are your wedges, back in the truck or you don't use wedges? Don't have wedges? Give your saw a little twisting motion to widen the kerf as you approach the point of hinge failure so the tree can sit on itself instead of your bar then buy some wedges to use on the next tree.

Tree goes but stops as the undercut closes up. This tells you there is still hinge wood. The tree flexes, as the hinge holds and the tree flexes back it pinches your saw. We have a hinge holding.

If the cut were clean through the branch should piviot the tree left or right depending on which side of the tree had the most weight on it. The tree would roll to balance the weight on two or more points, which way did it roll when you finally cut the hinge? I ask that because some times it slides back off the stump at you if the branch is under cosiderable load. Next time wider/deeper notch and take the wedges with you.

 

[Lawn Masters]

Re: tip stuck

Originally posted by geofore
Where are your wedges, back in the truck or you don't use wedges? Don't have wedges?

I was thinking the same thing. use some wedges next time and you might not get the saw stuck in the tree.

OR you could do what a friend of mine did once many years ago, use a wheel loader and push the tree in the desired direction.
though this would be an improper method of achieving your goal.

 

[turnkey4099]

re using wedges: Just how would they have helped? The tree was falling into the lean and opening up. Yes, I have wedges and use them when called for.

Re: cutting square. Nice if possible but the cut was already partly open, bar was only 24" in a 48" cut. I was cutting the hinge on one side almost full bar length, as the tree fell (until it stopped) it rotated very slightly, just enough to catch the last two inches of tip.

Re: larger wedge. Would have done (and should have anyhow) but due to lean it would have required one very loooong top cut.
In retrospect, I should have made the bottom cut at an upward angle, top at normal angle and resulting in a wide wedge.

re cutting above the open cut. Have done that in the past, here It was way to high to do that. Same for 'jump cutting'. Have done it in the past but on nothing this big .

re: plunge cutting. Yes, yes and yes again and don't I wish that I had done it. For sure it will be done on the big leaner(s) that are left for next year.

Ah well, still learning after 30 years of this.

Harry K

 

[joelamb]

Your main problem was not opening up your undercut enough. When you have a leaner with no top, which means not very much leverage to make the tree start falling, you have to open up the undercut on the top and the bottom. Angle cut the top of the undercut and Humbolt cut the bottom of the stump. Boring the back-cut depends on how hard the tree is leaning. It sounds like you didn't have much top weight, so I'm sure you could have just sawed the back-cut up. A leaner with top weight is what will Barberchair the easiest. Once you have the tree setting in your undercut just saw it up, from the back, with a fast motion all the way across your hinge, with your bar tip, keeping your saw on the upper side of the lean and cut it off the stump. TIMBERRRRRRR! But, if it doesn't fall then, your tops hung up.

 

[Gypo Logger]

Hi Joe, it's sounds like you have done that a time or two. But what do you do if your saw is duller than a hoe and the cuts don't meet?
John

 

[joelamb]

I don't fall trees with a dull chain and all my stumps look like table tops.

 

[Gypo Logger]

Hi Joe, that's good to hear, my stumps look like a quiggi board.
John

 

[joelamb]

The last video I saw of you falling a tree, you kicked it as it was going, left afoot of stump pull, and the tree didn't even hit the ground. Good thing you work for yourself!

 

[Gypo Logger]

Hi Joe, I hear what you're sayin', but every once in a while, I get one down and out and to the landing.
John

 

[Marky Mark]

You guys all have to start taking every thread and making it a Pizzing match.

What a dope Joelamby is tabletop, The only table top this guy has everseen is in a scateboard pool. We all know that Gypo is one of the best here, he could cut circles around you. Next week he is even traveling out to CA to race saws against the best and to show his new race chains he's working on.

 

[Gypo Logger]

Hi Barky, that's right, in fact, I think Joelimp is about due for a good wolfpacking for trying to turn everything into a big pissing match. And why wouldn't he be?
John