The truck counts as equipment??

[Patrick62]

Who's wrenching on their own stuff??

I am frustrated at the moment with what should have been pretty simple. You would think that a NP205 transfer case is about as simple as it gets??

Okay, 1974 Dodge. The truck has been beat pretty hard. The T/C was getting loose a few years ago. I acquired another one and had it rebuilt and ready to go. Last week the front yoke fell off so I said that is enough of that. stuffed a rag in there until I could get to it.... today. swapped in the other T/C filled it with fluid and took 'er for a test drive.
2 High is fine.
4 high is fine.
4 low isn't fine. It drives, but is "jumping" out of gear. sounds like gears slipping or something, and a shifter is jumping around and eventually jumps into neutral. This don't make much sense. I tried it with a foot on the shifter to "hold it" in. Same result, there is enough force there to bend the shift rod. it is very difficult to shift in/out of 4low and neutral.

So.... ordered a rebuild kit today with intentions of rebuilding the one that came out. Seems like a better deal over all, the devil I know that was more or less working just getting really loose.

Just how darned complicated can a cast iron case full of gears be anyway?? What the heck is wrong in the new one that caused this anyway??

 

[513yj]

Take the linkage off and put it in 4 low, drive it around and check to see if it stops. It might need to be adjusted or it could be a tooth or more sheared off the low range gear which could be still good on the other case you took out.

 

[olyman]

since you "had" it rebuilt..that opens a real can of worms..someone you knew,,or were you refered??? having been a mech for a lot of years, theres more than a few out that,,thatll rip yah..weve got one of them in town now.....that case,,may have had problems before you got it,,and if the rebuilder wasn't watching,,,,,,well,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[zogger]

That era dodge, full time 4wd, no unlocking hubs? If so, maybe they are staying locked or squirrely somehow, like half locked?

Inside the case, don't know, sticky rails maybe.

You got one out to rebuild, that's your best bet, you do it, you know it is done.

 

[redfin]

It sounds like the idler gear is not fully engaging. I have never been in a 205 but have done a few others. Does the shift rail on a 205 have detent balls? Possible wear on the groove not allowing full engagement or shift fork possibly out of correct alignment?

 

[brenndatomu]

Last one that I had do that had a burnt up shift fork, 'course it took the corners off the gears when it jumped out of gear...it's been a while ago, but IIRC I replaced the whole thing with another used one.

 

[Patrick62]

Kurt and I disconnected the linkage this morning. Then made sure it was in 4-low. both rods to the rear. Okay? Fired it up and about every 25ft it would POP very loudly. Then it popped itself into neutral.... This morning early, I tried another test. I jacked up one front and one rear, and lit off the engine in 4low. Everything was turning like it should without a load on it. and the wheels are in sync.

You guys with the thots about it being "full time" are confused with the 75 and up.... this is a 74, and most assuradly a NP205 with locking hubs.

Something is really messed up in there. Yep, I fully intend to go thru the other one. How hard could it be? cast iron bucket with gears in it.

 

[fordf150]

That transfer doesn't care if it has locking hubs or not. If everything works correctly in 4 high your problem is limited to just the low range gear set and shift fork. The shift rails and ball detents aren't really needed either( our mud trucks get the detents deleted and a shifter added to each shift rail to allow 2 wheel low range). Those transfers are as simple as they get and parts are cheap. Been quite a few years since I was in one. Search the 4 wheel magazines there are lots of articles on the 205. http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/transmission-drivetrain/131-0505-np205-transfer-case/

 

[513yj]

NP 205's are usually cheap and should be easy to find out of almost any chevy of the 70's with a passenger side drop. I had one do the same thing and it was a bad tooth on the intermediate gear. These things do not have a chain so make sure it's a 205 first and foremost.

 

[1project2many]

That transfer doesn't care if it has locking hubs or not. If everything works correctly in 4 high your problem is limited to just the low range gear set and shift fork.

Ditto. Also saw failed support bearing cause similar problems 1x.

 

[lone wolf]

Junkyard may have one at a decent price call and ask.

 

[steved]

That era dodge, full time 4wd, no unlocking hubs? If so, maybe they are staying locked or squirrely somehow, like half locked?

No, 74 would be the last of the hubs...external bolt-on. Transfercase is a part time NP205, all gears...unlike the full time 4wd NP203 with a chain. And you could still get trucks with lockouts during the 75 to 80-ish time frame, but they were ordered that way.

NP 205's are usually cheap and should be easy to find out of almost any chevy of the 70's with a passenger side drop. I had one do the same thing and it was a bad tooth on the intermediate gear. These things do not have a chain so make sure it's a 205 first and foremost.

The 74 Dodge version is a divorced case...not a married. Some of the parts are the same, but not all...

Unfortunately, these particular 205s aren't that easy to find anymore...most of them that I found in yards even ten years ago have long been crushed to make room for recent models. Find an offroad site (pirate4x4, pavementsucks, etc.) and you will likely find one...

 

[513yj]

The 74 Dodge version is a divorced case...not a married. Some of the parts are the same, but not all...

I would check around to see if you can still turn it into a married case, some guys use the ford divorced and chevy np cases when they do t-case doublers. Not sure what is involved or if it is possible with this style case.

 

[Patrick62]

I prefer the divorced case. In spite of doing battle with the intermediate shaft.... ended up with military drilled bolts and como wire to keep the bolts from walking out. Noticed your sig about the 12V Cummins. One of the next projects is to fix my 1993. Blown the auto hauling wood. The gearing sucked. I wont do the getrag, and not sure about a NV4500. I want a medium duty Eaton/Fuller in there! I will then have to divorce the T/C. Which would be the next weak link in the system. Imagine a cummins with a 7 or 9 to 1 first gear into the 205.... busted universals is definitely on the menu if someone were to cowboy it a little hard. I am willing to bet that I could put a load of green in the back and crawl out of the woods...!!!

 

[513yj]

I want one of the eaton 9 speeds with a 205 divorced myself but I don't have the time or money to fix it up now. I have an auto on my 95 12V now but also have all the stuff to make it a NV4500 when it blows out. The 12v cummins is hard to beat in my book.

 

[Patrick62]

I have been looking fairly hard on this. 5 or 6 speed is about right, and the one you want is the FSO the O represents overdrive. I don't plan on going that far so overdrive is less important. What I would end up with is a 45mph truck that could pull a brick **** house off it's foundation.
The numbers sort of represent the torque rating, the last digit is the number of gears. FS4205a (420 torque, 5 speed) and would be adequate behind a stock 5.9 Eatons are overdesigned considerably.

I am not going to put one more dollar into that blasted auto. I literally ended up loaded and trying to drive out or back up and could not get the truck moving until the turbo spun up absolutely pathetic.

 

[steved]

Do a NV4500, not a Getrag. Stay away from the NV5600 6spd as parts are increasingly hard to find, where the NV4500 has a fairly big following.

I thought the doublers were a combination of the NP203 range box and the NP205 transfercase? Never heard of a 205/205 doubler...but I've been out of it for a while, something new?

 

[Patrick62]

Yep, the 203/205 combo uses the 1/2 of the 203 in front of a 205 (not something I would subject to the diesel)
The problem with the NV4500 is cost. They are expensive, usually. The second problem is the first gear is not great at 5.61 to 1 put the transfer back in there at 1.96 to 1, and the axles are 3.54 gives a overall ratio of 38.54 which "might" be enough.

in comparison to that 74 that started this thread...
Np435 with a 6.68 first, 1.96 in the T/C, and 4.10 in the axles. 53.68 which is usually enough to get the job done. A few times I have wanted a little more, and that is with a 383 in front of it all.

I have seen a few Eaton fs4205a and they come with a 8.05 first, 1.96 T/C and the 3.54's make for a decent 55.85 with diesel torque...

Now the really cool part is other than some driveshaft creations (which I can do), the parts to do the eaton is likely cheaper than the NV4500. You guys out here are far more familiar to the wood cutting, and heavy loads we carry up some rather steep hills would understand why the flippin' auto tranny don't belong in a wood hauler pickup (2.5 X 1.96 X 3.54 = 17.35 and the converter slipping to try and make it work)

Never mind the floor modifications, or the kludge of getting a clutch pedal in there. There isn't one straight piece of sheet metal on this truck, and the doors barely latch. There really isn't anything to lose here.

 

[zogger]

Yep, the 203/205 combo uses the 1/2 of the 203 in front of a 205 (not something I would subject to the diesel)
The problem with the NV4500 is cost. They are expensive, usually. The second problem is the first gear is not great at 5.61 to 1 put the transfer back in there at 1.96 to 1, and the axles are 3.54 gives a overall ratio of 38.54 which "might" be enough.

in comparison to that 74 that started this thread...
Np435 with a 6.68 first, 1.96 in the T/C, and 4.10 in the axles. 53.68 which is usually enough to get the job done. A few times I have wanted a little more, and that is with a 383 in front of it all.

I have seen a few Eaton fs4205a and they come with a 8.05 first, 1.96 T/C and the 3.54's make for a decent 55.85 with diesel torque...

Now the really cool part is other than some driveshaft creations (which I can do), the parts to do the eaton is likely cheaper than the NV4500. You guys out here are far more familiar to the wood cutting, and heavy loads we carry up some rather steep hills would understand why the flippin' auto tranny don't belong in a wood hauler pickup (2.5 X 1.96 X 3.54 = 17.35 and the converter slipping to try and make it work)

Never mind the floor modifications, or the kludge of getting a clutch pedal in there. There isn't one straight piece of sheet metal on this truck, and the doors barely latch. There really isn't anything to lose here.

We had another thread here someplace, someone, I forget who, was opining on a perfect truck, actually sounded decent. Something like start with a heavy ford frame and suspension, cummins 12 valve, disremember the tranny/TC, and a chevy cab. Sounded cool.

Tell ya whut I would like just around the farm, a "trucktor". Anything super heavy duty that is road legal I can't afford it to insure it. Had a swap going on for a c60 dumptruck and with personal use only insurance, It was gonna cost me 50 bucks insurance every time I turned the key on. Nuts, passed on the trade. Use it ten times a year maybe, but they don't care.

I am sticking with my real real real cheap diesels and not push them hard. I have a datsun 81 for my DD, 30-40 mpg, then a couple of chevies with the 6.2s. All my trucks I buy as rollers/scrap then gradually get them working as I can afford parts, etc. All three crank and run now, two on the road. The 3/4 ton I got as parts mostly for the wheels/tires and axles, dang if I didn't get it to crank with redoing the wiring. The dude I bought it from couldn't get it to crank at all, duh, it was cobjobbed deluxe. I cut it out and just ran some new scrap wirres, started right up. Needs injectors, 3 of the 8 are bad, on my list to get when I scrape it up. Cheap as diesels go, $150 a set plus core. With my light use should be fine. That one has the manual 4 speed.

I know guys say they are gutless, only have the horsepower of a 305 gasser, that's true, but they got more mulepower than a 305 and are wayyy cheaper than a cummins or powerstroke or duramax. I can't afford any of them as I am a "dozenaire".



Anyway, sounds like you need a deuce, then you don't have to cobjob all sorts of stuff to get big and tough and work hard.

 

[Patrick62]

We had another thread here someplace, someone, I forget who, was opining on a perfect truck, actually sounded decent. Something like start with a heavy ford frame and suspension, cummins 12 valve, disremember the tranny/TC, and a chevy cab. Sounded cool.

Tell ya whut I would like just around the farm, a "trucktor". Anything super heavy duty that is road legal I can't afford it to insure it. Had a swap going on for a c60 dumptruck and with personal use only insurance, It was gonna cost me 50 bucks insurance every time I turned the key on. Nuts, passed on the trade. Use it ten times a year maybe, but they don't care.

I am sticking with my real real real cheap diesels and not push them hard. I have a datsun 81 for my DD, 30-40 mpg, then a couple of chevies with the 6.2s. All my trucks I buy as rollers/scrap then gradually get them working as I can afford parts, etc. All three crank and run now, two on the road. The 3/4 ton I got as parts mostly for the wheels/tires and axles, dang if I didn't get it to crank with redoing the wiring. The dude I bought it from couldn't get it to crank at all, duh, it was cobjobbed deluxe. I cut it out and just ran some new scrap wirres, started right up. Needs injectors, 3 of the 8 are bad, on my list to get when I scrape it up. Cheap as diesels go, $150 a set plus core. With my light use should be fine. That one has the manual 4 speed.

I know guys say they are gutless, only have the horsepower of a 305 gasser, that's true, but they got more mulepower than a 305 and are wayyy cheaper than a cummins or powerstroke or duramax. I can't afford any of them as I am a "dozenaire".



Anyway, sounds like you need a deuce, then you don't have to cobjob all sorts of stuff to get big and tough and work hard.

Got a deuce. been runnin' it for years now. Slower than evolution with gears like a tank to make the 225 move it. Perfectly reliable. I have loaded 7000+ in it, it doesn't even complain. You can keep your 6.2's but they are cheap runners.