They don't want to pay the actual prices for the standard tree co.

[ForTheArborist]

Often I hear HO's talking about lower bidders, but they then say they felt safe with me even though my bid was higher. On the other hand the majority of HOs try to haggle the price on me. They don't need the legally and widely accepted standards of service, and they sure don't care if I'm going to make money. They must frown on that concept. So what can I do about it?

No Standards:

No taxes
No health insurance
No damage insurance
No bond
No License
No Certs
No Legal Status What so Ever
No idea how much work is involved until they get half through
No idea what trees were supposed to look like when finished

 

[sgreanbeans]

One thing you have to keep in mind. Most HO's do not want to spend money on trees, mainly the rich "want to" most of the rest, it is money they would rather spend on something else, but they need to get that tree down or that branch away from the house. Smart ones check the paperwork, poor ones go with low bidders, commercial has to take lower of the three. This doesn't mean you lower your price, but sell you standards. People who understand the diff will be the ones worth doing it for. The others, well your right, they are just fine with you not making any money. I just love when I am out bidding, pull up to a money maker, then I look around and can tell that they do not spend money on anything, like house maintenance, clean clothes, broken down cars. Those ones, I just shoot a good hi price and move on to the next, I know they are not going to hire me, so I don't waste my time.

I believe the scenario goes like this:

"Honey, Economy was 5000, Pro Hack was 2500, he has insurance, that's what his paper said, if we go with Pro Hack, we can get the tree down and get that new HDTV. If something bad happens, well, we do have insurance!, that's what is for right! when does Best Buy open!"

 

[ForTheArborist]

I need to work on raising the reputation of a standard tree co. when I'm with the HOs. I'm sure I need to sound like I'm campaigning against illegal operations and the financial risks with co.s that don't even have the money for coverages. And then there is the condition of the trees after the job speak of. The shape, structure, and health must be slightly important to most people hiring. They may not even realize any of this unless I politely ask some questions, and illuminate what they are up against.

One thing I haven't brought up yet out there at the HOs is about taxes. I need to make an example of paying the full amount of what is due for doing business in this state at a time when reporting taxes is a at all time low. "The state is broke, and their are a lot of contractual services practice corrupt business. Two bads don't make a right. You can do the right thing by hiring credible services." I need to work on that speech, and I'm not sure how the state with the most people has the deepest debt. The money must be going to the HDTV manufacturers.

 

[lxt]

Be careful what you preach FTA!!, are you a fully legit biz? are your sure?.........not to re-visit things but I remember you asking for advice on a pine tree that took a few days to complete.......that was you right?

so lets look at what you`re talking about.......credentials? what are yours?, taxes, work comp., liability, etc.. do you carry those? proper limits? what about those nice quarterly audits? hows your employee handbook fair when the auditor shows up?.........how about that written safety plan?

I get a kick out of these guys & their CTSP certification..............they study, take test, pass test with what 76% or higher & now they are the measuring stick....so they think!! well, here in PA I had to have a written safety plan a plan that would muster that wonderful quarterly audit............ya see there is no A - F grade scale, its compliant or Non-compliant & if you`re not compliant then the citations start a flying!! So whats my point?............How compliant are you? when was your last audit & if you say you havent had one................then you are one in the same with those who you are complaining about!!!





LXT................

 

[beastmaster]

I have worked for a lot of different tree services over the year, but one guy stands out. He set him self apart. He charges ridiculously high prices. I hear him tell customers,"I can tell you right now, I'm going to be your highest bid." Then he sells the job.
Most his jobs are in high end areas He customer base are people who are willing to pay for the best work, and he delivers. We often do big jobs and never even disturb a blade of grass, or hurt a flower.
Do I think its kind of dumb to break out a laser leveler to do a hedge, yes, do the customers eat it up, yes. How many bosses tell you to take as long as you need, just make it perfect.
My point is if your in the same market as the hacks, you have to bid against them, and most HO's don't care. It's a lot to do with customer base and reputation. There are some who know and care about their trees and are willing to pay for the best. Thats the market you want. Set a high standard, do impeccable work, and they will come. Beastmaster.

 

[newsawtooth]

Set a high standard, do impeccable work, and they will come. Beastmaster.

Nice post, Beast.

 

[ForTheArborist]

I have worked for a lot of different tree services over the year, but one guy stands out. He set him self apart. He charges ridiculously high prices. I hear him tell customers,"I can tell you right now, I'm going to be your highest bid." Then he sells the job.
Most his jobs are in high end areas He customer base are people who are willing to pay for the best work, and he delivers. We often do big jobs and never even disturb a blade of grass, or hurt a flower.
Do I think its kind of dumb to break out a laser leveler to do a hedge, yes, do the customers eat it up, yes. How many bosses tell you to take as long as you need, just make it perfect.
My point is if your in the same market as the hacks, you have to bid against them, and most HO's don't care. It's a lot to do with customer base and reputation. There are some who know and care about their trees and are willing to pay for the best. Thats the market you want. Set a high standard, do impeccable work, and they will come. Beastmaster.

A laser level........that's great.

 

[ForTheArborist]

Be careful what you preach FTA!!, are you a fully legit biz? are your sure?.........not to re-visit things but I remember you asking for advice on a pine tree that took a few days to complete.......that was you right?

so lets look at what you`re talking about.......credentials? what are yours?, taxes, work comp., liability, etc.. do you carry those? proper limits? what about those nice quarterly audits? hows your employee handbook fair when the auditor shows up?.........how about that written safety plan?

I get a kick out of these guys & their CTSP certification..............they study, take test, pass test with what 76% or higher & now they are the measuring stick....so they think!! well, here in PA I had to have a written safety plan a plan that would muster that wonderful quarterly audit............ya see there is no A - F grade scale, its compliant or Non-compliant & if you`re not compliant then the citations start a flying!! So whats my point?............How compliant are you? when was your last audit & if you say you havent had one................then you are one in the same with those who you are complaining about!!!





LXT................

Well, well, well, didn't I get a bite. Thank you for the check list, Mr. Law and Order.

Really, I don't hand out info online like this, but I will modestly admit I don't have that safety plan written. I'll stop there. That's another thread though.

 

[TimberMcPherson]

Well, well, well, didn't I get a bite. Thank you for the check list, Mr. Law and Order.

Really, I don't hand out info online like this, but I will modestly admit I don't have that safety plan written. I'll stop there. That's another thread though.

As long as you have the relivent training and qualifications you will be just fine. Otherwise you will be treated and paid as a hack and a cowboy, then once you hurt someone badly and have to tell OSHA how much of your training came from a online forum, you will be treated like a reckless criminal.

You talking about operating a legitimate tree care business and complaining about hacks is laughable. Go learn from guys first hand who know what they are doing. Just as many one here told you a couple years ago when you were wannabe cowboy hack. Now you have more gear.

 

[TreeClimber57]

My point is if your in the same market as the hacks, you have to bid against them, and most HO's don't care. It's a lot to do with customer base and reputation. There are some who know and care about their trees and are willing to pay for the best. Thats the market you want. Set a high standard, do impeccable work, and they will come. Beastmaster.

Agreed. And frankly you do not want the market the hacks attract. You want to have a reputation for being the best if you can. But that means having the right equipment, the right training, and doing each job professionally and perfectly.

 

[Slvrmple72]

Started out as a hack, spiking, tearing up trees and peoples stuff. Got smart, got better, got away from that customer base. Sell your service, sell your service, sell your service!!!

 

[lxt]

Well, well, well, didn't I get a bite. Thank you for the check list, Mr. Law and Order.

Really, I don't hand out info online like this, but I will modestly admit I don't have that safety plan written. I'll stop there. That's another thread though.

Dont want you to post any personal info & would never expect such..............So, when was that last quarterly audit buckaroo?


BTW..............that was you regarding that amateur pine tree take down that took a week? wasnt it?


LXT..............

 

[ForTheArborist]

Slvrmple72

"Started out as a hack, spiking, tearing up trees and peoples stuff. Got smart, got better, got away from that customer base. Sell your service, sell your service, sell your service!!!"

Wellp, you better start all over. Timber McPherson is the law around here, and you gonna just have to go bury that head of yours. Personally, tell that Timbo goon that it's a mighty stick fight at noon in front of your company, or you're walking with the company and money you made. :sword: Alright, git 'im!!!

 

[ForTheArborist]

This was a good thread........at first.

 

[jefflovstrom]

 

[TimberMcPherson]

Slvrmple72

"Started out as a hack, spiking, tearing up trees and peoples stuff. Got smart, got better, got away from that customer base. Sell your service, sell your service, sell your service!!!"

Wellp, you better start all over. Timber McPherson is the law around here, and you gonna just have to go bury that head of yours. Personally, tell that Timbo goon that it's a mighty stick fight at noon in front of your company, or you're walking with the company and money you made. :sword: Alright, git 'im!!!

You came on this forum asking advice on how to get into the tree business etc, people including me gave you simular advice that you should learn how to do this job properly from others and/or get qualifications as it would be the best foundation for you and your business in this game.
You asked the qualified and experienced guys on this site for tree diagnosis (which you no doubt took back to your client like you actually knew what you were on about). You brought a big drill bit and seemed quite crestfallen when you were told that you shouldnt be messing with it if you didnt have the brains to drive it properly down the tree diagnosis road.

And now your asking why people dont seem to want to pay what you percieve as "actual" prices for tree work. Well they pay for what they get, and they are probably getting what they paid for.
For you to be able to ask for more, YOU have to be worth more.
We get to choose our clients and we set our price and the client gets to choose us. If the wrong clients are the ones finding you, then you need to find better, or to be more correct, you need better clients to find you. And they will only look for you if
1) there last or current guy is really really terrible
2) they have heard your really really good.
3) a bit of 1 and 2

You cant make #1 happen, and the chance of making number 2 occur without the right training and experience in the short term are not good. Being told that you do a good job by unknowledgable clients is like judging your popularity by how much your dog loves you.
People have an uncanny knack for picking up if someone is in the range of pamphlet recyclers to really having the background. And often these decerning clients are the ones that LOVE there trees and are willing in invest above what you would call "actual price". I have a bunch of clients that I inherited from a well meaning cowboy hack. They are repeat clients and were very happy with his dreadful work, we are slowly reeducating these people and puting the trees right or removing those to far gone. Its tough to have our name associated with this kind of previous work, but in the long term it will we worth while for all involved.

Its easier to start with good foundations than try to fit them in later. And if you dont want to hear advice you dont like, stop asking for it.

 

[ForTheArborist]

McPheerson wrote, "You came on this forum asking advice on how to get into the tree business...."

Yeeaaah, I saw that on my screen, and I realized you're sniveling about something unrelated here. The thread is about selling the goods, not about McPheeronce's mystery worries in New Zealand about tree ops on the Western half of the world. The topic you're cutting and dropping in my thread is a little heavy. Lighten it up, and make sure it's applicable to who you're writing to. I'm not a dope. :msp_thumbup:

I'll read the rest of your speech for president of AS another time.

 

[lxt]

McPheerson wrote, "You came on this forum asking advice on how to get into the tree business...."
I'm not a dope. :msp_thumbup:

You`re not a dope?..............coulda fooled me & the others, but I have to agree with ya...........you`re not a dope, you`re a bag of crap that should be set on fire, atleast that way you`d have a purpose!

See fellow AS Pro`s.........this is why our biz is terrible, even the hacks come here posting, looking for ways to steal n sell the knowledge they dont have the skillset to apply!! im so fed up I put my lift up for sale & am calling it quits after this year for tree work, I might do some hit n miss stuff but only if the price is right..........Ill find a new niche & go from there Im just sick of going backwards & jackwagons like FTA are a primary source for screwing over the legit biz types

only way to survive is to lowball (not happening) run without insurance (nope) or hire DUI/AA types for cheap then what do they care..........can you say property damage claim? so yeah, pretty sure its my last year!!



LXT................

 

[jefflovstrom]

FTA, remember this?

http://www.arboristsite.com/forestry-logging-forum/111468.htm

 

[TreeClimber57]

Title of Thread

The title of this thread is "They don't want to pay the actual prices"..

What are or what does "actual prices" mean.

I guess the question is, without gouging people how much can you or anybody charge and why should you or anybody charge that much?

When prices go up for anything, it is usually, or at least hopefully not simply because some money hungry gouging *@& is taking money away. In that case the old saying is "you can fool some of the people some of the time..but.."

You see.. what is actual price.. and how does one come to that price or how does one deserve that price.

It is NOT simply because you are doing tree work that you automatically fall into a slot and should expect NOR deserve to get the same as the highest paid tree companies out there.

Prices come at or for a reason, and for good reason people are willing to pay premium prices for some services provided by SOME companies.

Reasons are many, but can be broken down into something like this:
a) legitimate companies (registered businesses), with insurance, workers compensation, members of professional organizations such as ISA & TCIA, members of BBB, etc.
b) companies with certifications; staff who are professionally trained; staff with years of experience under their belt and lots of satisfied customers to prove it
c) equipment - the biggest and best .. trucks, cranes, GRCS, Hobbs, bucket trucks, you name it..
d) likely a few more but let’s stop here..

You see customers are willing to pay for -- safety -- professionalism -- integrity -- confidence job will be done properly and their place left as good or better than when the job began.

Training, experience and proper equipment allows one to do the job more safely, more professionally and more quickly. Customers like that..

Now there may be more; only a short list above for sure..

But as I don't really know you I cannot be critical.. Let me ask, how much of what I have listed above describes you and your company? You see if you can check it all off.. then perhaps you should charge and likely deserve premium pricing. If not; then perhaps you can tell us or me why you deserve or should even ask or expect it?

You should get a "fair" price for what you do, and the quality with which you do it. What work do you do, at what quality.. and what is fair.

If people are not willing to pay you what you consider fair; then step back and examine what the customer sees and why they are not willing to pay it. There seems to be a lot of flashing red lights here.. what IS the issue.

And frankly; if you can not say yes to at least half of above; what the *#)) are you doing in tree business at all. You should start working for somebody who knows what they are doing.. learn the ropes first and the start a company like many of us did.