Thimbles....not for sewing!

[NickfromWI]

For those of you that use spliced rigging lines with thimbles (is there anyone that does?)- I have a guy who wants me to splice a rigging line for him. He just wants to be able to hook a carabiner to it. I mentioned thimble to him and he hadn't considered the option. He does a few large removals and was concerned with the thimble breaking...especially if it was plastic. I've only used thimbles on climbing lines.

Should I use a metal thimble for this, or would the plastic ones be fine?

He is an older guy who doesn't have time to be fussing with knots. He currently uses ropes with a snap-hook tied on permanently. I suggested using carabiners so that if the 'biner did get trashed, he can replace it only, rather than cutting off the last 2 feet of rope and tying on a new one.

love
nick

 

[Tree Machine]

Thimbling rope ends

Me thinks plastic thimble, not such a good idea. I spliced one in a few years ago and it broke about on the second rigging. It was the kind that had the little wrap-around fingers that enveloped the rope, so the thimble didn't just pop out. I had to surgically extract it.

Metal, also not so good because in your rigging duties, you may end up with metal thimble edge tightly forcing upon the edge of your rope in the case of doing two wraps around the limb to be lowered, or my fave, a quick cow hitch. Additionally, an aluminum biner clipped onto a steel thimble,.... the thimble's gonna gouge the biner sooner or later.

Captive-eye biner or safety snap spliced in.... one more thing to possibly get hung up in tight crotches. Also more likely to do that double-wind or triple-wind around a small limb on its way being pulled out of a tree, which can only be a pain.

Finally, when you pull your rope out of the tree and there's NO hardware, if the rope end hits you (or an employee) its a slap. If there's a steel thimble in it, OWWWWW.

My vote, no hardware in your splices. Half a decade ago I went to making my eyes extra long. I think last year the Sherrill catalog started promoting that, and I smiled. The only rope I have that has a small eye is my Fly, and that's just because it came that way. -TM-

 

[NickfromWI]

It's not really my choice

Unfortunately, I don't get to make all the choices here. The crew is not very knot-savvy. To bypass this, the boss has settled on something that requires little teach-time. Hence the snap-hook tied in at the end of the rope.

Now, he is planning on switching from snaphook to the 11,000lb steel carabiners that Sherrill sells. I reccomended this over the snap hooks simply because they are stronger, and he wouldn't have to replace them as often (he's constantly replacing the snap hooks when parts get bent or tweaked and the gate no longer opens or closes.)

So this is why I am in a dilemna right now. Steel, plastic, or none. Part of my thinking is that "no thimble" would be alright. He's rigged heavy wood in the past just on a snaphook tied to the end of the line. That's a tight turn for the line. A carabiner would be no worse.

love
nick

 

[kf_tree]

personally i don't like the biner idea......thats not what they were designed for. i'd stick with bowline, i can see it for light stuff but not for big wacks.

 

[NickfromWI]

I know, and I agree

You guys are right. The bowline, or just about any other knot would be better for this application. However, for MANY years, this guy has been running the rope around the log, hooking the snap to the line to choke the log off, then cutting it and letting it go. Try telling him that his way is wrong when he has decades worth of successfull experience doing it his way.

So my question is not what's a better way to connect the rope to the log, it's about the use of a steel thimble, a plastic thimble, or no thimble at all. Any input in this regard would be appreciatied.

love
nick

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Thimbles are load rated. If you match the thimble to the loads it will be encountering you're ok.
I have a 22,000 lb bull rope with a steel thimble that is plenty strong. It also has an interesting design that requires you thread the rope through as you make the splice. This makes it so it can't fall out.
If you are splicing up a 10,000 lb rope, I don't think the plastic thimbles are going to cut it.

 

[NickfromWI]

Originally posted by Mike Maas
If you are splicing up a 10,000 lb rope, I don't think the plastic thimbles are going to cut it.

That's pretty much what I was thinking. I haven't noticed a load rating on thimbles. Any of you have any good ideas where I might be able to get a good thimble loaded for 10-13 thousand pounds?

love
nick

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Nick,

You must have this company bookmarked:

http://www.bosunsupplies.com/


http://www.bareboating.com/marine_index.html


I would bet that an industrial rigging house could set you up with some strong thimbles. The companies that put together slings and rigging for iron workers and tow trucks.

For many years in my early career we used half inch, three strand, hemp or manila rope for rigging. Natural crotch with a non-locking steel snap choked around the log. Cave-man techniques by today's standards. I never broke a rope either. If the guy has been working that long, he is either lucky [not likely] or he has come up with a system that works for him. Could he follow a system with a higher safety factor, sure. Getting him to use a knotless, sling-based rigging system would be easier and quicker but I'll bet knots to hitches that he won't bight, er, bite on a new technique.

 

[NickfromWI]

I think Tom's got it!!!

Tom, you seem to have worked with this guy before!!!!

I give this guy a lot of credit. He's been taking wraps around the trees for decades. After less than two hours of having me rope down the body wood of a huge silver maple, he's convinced he should buy a Portawrap III.

I don't know why I didn't check bosunsupplies before posting this question! I'll go straight there.

love
nick

 

[ramanujan]

How about simply slipping a piece of tubular webbing on the eye before completing the splice in place of a thimble, maybe even a few pieces inside one another. Although it may not reduce the bend radius much it will reduce the wear. I think sherrill does this with their whoopie slings.

 

[NickfromWI]

When you say the splice will last longer than the rope, do you mean that the eye will abrade less than other parts of the rope? If that is the case, then you're right, no thimble would be necessary. But I'm concerned that with a carabiner, the wear is always on the exact same spot. Seems a thimble would be important here.

love
nick

 

[NickfromWI]

well looky there

I dare you to break this thimble!

That's exactly what I had in mind!

love
nick

 

[NickfromWI]

webbing in eye

ramanujan
Yeah, that's a good idea. I do that on a lot of my splices, including some of my double braid friction hitches. It works well for chafe protection. Maybe that would be enough in this situation. I got some thinking to do!

 

[Tree Machine]

Thimbel

Nice looking thimble, but Mike Maas has the point of the type of thimble that you have to thread the rope through before you do your splice, rather than just around it like a conventional thimble. If your eye splice stretches just a little bit, any lateral loading is gonna pop that thimble out , and it's hard not to lateral load something that's being forced around and into the face of a curve (i.e. the limb).

The point of sheathing some tubular webbing to cover the wear spot is good. Make sure, though, that the ends to those short webbing pieces are melted
completely else it will unravel. Note: Melting will normally shrink the opening to the tube webbing and curve it inward, making it kinda tough, thereafter, to feed the rope through. To prevent this, I sleeve the nylon tubing over a similar diameter steel rod and melt with a propane torch. -TM-

 

[NickfromWI]

You guys are making this hard on me.

Yeah, now that you mention it, the thimble going to need to securely attach to the eye. That webbing is starting to sound more and more appealing!

love
nick