Thinking about getting into the tree service business...what do I need to know?

[Rangerbait]

Well I'm not an owner but I make almost what the owners do... but I have zero liability. Why do we do it? Cause it's a job, not everyone is blessed with a gravy job pulling in 100k+. Some owners make tons of money but it's not gonna happen in a year or two.
This industry is not a get rich quick scheme. Everybody and their brother thinks it's easy money in our area we get 20 new companies a year and most of them fail. Can you sell 100 thousand dollar trees? OK now you need to sell another 200 now you made enough money to pay your expenses. Just as an example our insurance costs this year (liability, auto,wc,umbrella,health,dental) were 365k that's 1000 dollars a day.. obviously you starting out won't be at that level but to gross 1.2m this year it cost us 1.2m give or take a few dollars the owners still went home with their hourly pay so it wasn't a total loss but it's not all profit. This year was bad normally we are 1.5 minimum up to 2


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I certainly do feel blessed to have the job I do, and did not mean to disparage your line of work...I do acknowledge that something that seems appealing from afar can quickly become a nightmare when you HAVE to do it.

I’m still going to pursue a small operation,
But will probably just do it as a side hustle to support my firewood hoarding.

I appreciate the feedback.

 

[Brian72]

I certainly do feel blessed to have the job I do, and did not mean to disparage your line of work...I do acknowledge that something that seems appealing from afar can quickly become a nightmare when you HAVE to do it.

I’m still going to pursue a small operation,
But will probably just do it as a side hustle to support my firewood hoarding.

I appreciate the feedback.

Here's a few things I've learned. I don't do this for a living but I enjoy doing it on the side. I've managed to take advantage of the smaller jobs the bigger guys just don't want to deal with. I do more of a handyman service but I will do smaller removals, trim hedges etc. Diversity has worked well for me. Maybe consider some landscaping, small excavation along with smaller tree work to get your start. One downside of strictly tree work is equipment costs. The more you're capable of doing, the better your chance of success.

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[scheffa]

It is what you make it.
If you love what you do you will never work another day in your life.
Setup costs all depend upon your market and your aspirations,
Just this year my brother and I have started out on our own and sub contract to our old employer doing lone clearing when we aren’t busy with our own work.
Second hand 4x4 chip truck and 13” chipper cost us under $20k, it’s not super fancy but a coat of paint and some sign writhing and it looks pretty good.
All ready had all our own sass, climbing and rigging gear.
Public liability cost about $1500yr as we are both sub contractors we have our own injury insurance for about $350 a year.

It doesn’t have to cost a fortune to get started and start making money, passion, knowledge and a can do attitude will put do almost any piece of equipment

 

[Brian72]

It is what you make it.
If you love what you do you will never work another day in your life.
Setup costs all depend upon your market and your aspirations,
Just this year my brother and I have started out on our own and sub contract to our old employer doing lone clearing when we aren’t busy with our own work.
Second hand 4x4 chip truck and 13” chipper cost us under $20k, it’s not super fancy but a coat of paint and some sign writhing and it looks pretty good.
All ready had all our own sass, climbing and rigging gear.
Public liability cost about $1500yr as we are both sub contractors we have our own injury insurance for about $350 a year.

It doesn’t have to cost a fortune to get started and start making money, passion, knowledge and a can do attitude will put do almost any piece of equipment

Very good points. I think the biggest mistake people make is strapping themselves financially. Start small and be willing to grow slowly. Avoid debt as much as possible. Life can really suck when most of your paycheck is spent making loan payments on equipment that's financed. Set yourself up so you're able to make it through the lean times.

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[Rangerbait]

It is what you make it.
If you love what you do you will never work another day in your life.
Setup costs all depend upon your market and your aspirations,
Just this year my brother and I have started out on our own and sub contract to our old employer doing lone clearing when we aren’t busy with our own work.
Second hand 4x4 chip truck and 13” chipper cost us under $20k, it’s not super fancy but a coat of paint and some sign writhing and it looks pretty good.
All ready had all our own sass, climbing and rigging gear.
Public liability cost about $1500yr as we are both sub contractors we have our own injury insurance for about $350 a year.

It doesn’t have to cost a fortune to get started and start making money, passion, knowledge and a can do attitude will put do almost any piece of equipment

Thanks for the encouragement.

 

[wash-climber]

Rangerbait, that's awesome that you want to pursue tree work. Before starting your own business, I would highly recommend just working for another tree service.

Look on yelp for the best services with the nicest website. That usually shows that they care about their image and hopefully that translates to caring for their employees. Apply to those guys first, in person. Smaller companies are great to work for because you get more one on one training with the owner, soak up their knowledge.

Be ready to do grunt work. Lifting/rolling logs, dragging LOTS of brush, chipping etc... master the ground work. Be the best at cleanup. Be the best at managing the climbers rope. Fill up the saws gas and oil. Learn to sharpen a chain better than anyone.

Then, become a great climber. Hand saw work only until you are comfortable in a tree. Make proper cuts (at the branch collar etc). Learn pruning guidelines. Learn how to climb in spurs. Removals and pruning are way different. Learn safe rigging techniques.

I could go on and on.

Keep track of the jobs, how long they take, what could have been done better, what close calls were there, what is the boss charging for the job... all that will be helpful for your own pricing and estimating ability.

You will learn fast, after youve been climbing for a few months you should be pretty comfortable doing small job's on the weekends or evenings. Get licensed and insured when your side job's start getting bigger. You will reach a point where you decide to take a leap into being fully self employed.

It may take 2-3 years. But by that point you will have all your own gear, skill, knowledge, experience, legalities taken care of, and a clientele base. More of a step than a leap.

Good luck!

 

[Benjamin S Pendleton]

I just had to ad my two cents. I grew up watching my dad in the business. The one thing I could never had anticipated was the paper part of it. Its not like it was when I was growing up, its a lot more complicated now. Taxes, liability insurance, commercial auto insurance, dot paperwork daily and the strict standards they want our trucks held to, estimates, w9 forms, it keeps going on from there. Its a lot of work to maintain the back bone just so you can go to work and use a chainsaw. There are days I feel like selling my business and working for someone else. So like a lot of people have already said you need to have an idea of how to even run the work part of it before you try to handle the work part and the legal paper part.

 

[greengreer]

Agreed, alot of days tree work is the easy part. Sometimes it seems like a million hoops to jump through just to be able to set a line or crank a saw.
You're gonna have to learn to wear alot of hats to own a tree service. If you don't know how to do tree work it's gonna be hard to keep from drowning.
If you're serious about getting into the biz, start from the ground up. Another good way to find a solid company to work with is their ppe policy. I wouldn't work with a crew that doesn't at least make helmets mandatory, chaps or saw pants would be a plus. If they don't care about protecting their own bodies, why should they care about protecting yours?

 

[Rangerbait]

All good responses...thanks!

 

[Ikeholt]

You might consider grinding stumps first. Less to learn, lower entry costs. Similar hands on work but on the ground. Then add a chipper for clean-up work. Usually plenty of work for those that go after it

 

[Rangerbait]

Is there any sort of standard approach for bidding jobs? I realize each town or region will have its own baseline based on regulations, insurance costs, etc, but is there a general baseline formula for a straight forward felling, vs a tree that might require more limb walking, or bucket truck access?

 

[Benjamin S Pendleton]

Is there any sort of standard approach for bidding jobs? I realize each town or region will have its own baseline based on regulations, insurance costs, etc, but is there a general baseline formula for a straight forward felling, vs a tree that might require more limb walking, or bucket truck access?

A big part of it is time. I know how long it will take to remove and clean up that tree in the corner over concrete vs the one in the back that has to be drug through two Gates over a rock landscape. Then there are liabilities that drive the price up. You could disclose a non responsible for that concrete fountain it's over or for those rotten gazebo boards it's over but customers don't like that. It's better to raise the price to cover the cost of potential damage. You try like he'll not to damage it but if you do your covered. Bidding is an art. You need a baseline cost per hour you need to make say 100 an hour. You know it will take about 4 hours to cut and clean up that tree so your base is 400. Then you add another 100 because it's got to be hauled through 2 Gates with gravel on the ground. Another 50 because the customer is really picky. And another 50 because you will probably have to replace the backflow valve because the pipes are rotten. It's now a 600 dollar job. Now just because you have gotten so good that you can do that job a little faster and you manage not to break anything, and you carry the limbs out instead of dragging causing the job to go way faster than expected you don't drop your prices.

 

[Rangerbait]

A big part of it is time. I know how long it will take to remove and clean up that tree in the corner over concrete vs the one in the back that has to be drug through two Gates over a rock landscape. Then there are liabilities that drive the price up. You could disclose a non responsible for that concrete fountain it's over or for those rotten gazebo boards it's over but customers don't like that. It's better to raise the price to cover the cost of potential damage. You try like he'll not to damage it but if you do your covered. Bidding is an art. You need a baseline cost per hour you need to make say 100 an hour. You know it will take about 4 hours to cut and clean up that tree so your base is 400. Then you add another 100 because it's got to be hauled through 2 Gates with gravel on the ground. Another 50 because the customer is really picky. And another 50 because you will probably have to replace the backflow valve because the pipes are rotten. It's now a 600 dollar job. Now just because you have gotten so good that you can do that job a little faster and you manage not to break anything, and you carry the limbs out instead of dragging causing the job to go way faster than expected you don't drop your prices.

There’s definitely going to be a learning curve there for me in this area.

 

[ropensaddle]

I figured that was going to be my approach...just hoping that there’s a service that’ll let me work here and there since I still have a full time job for the time being + family responsibilities.

I realize this must sound like a hair brain idea, especially since I already have a 23 year career that I’d have no trouble finding a six-figure salary working an office job after I “retire”...but frankly, I hate being stuck indoors, and want to run my own show after spending my youth working for Uncle Sam.

I have three sons (7, 4, and 2), plus a 25 year old stepson. My vision is to work with my 25er to get the business off the ground, and then build something that I can eventually include the little dudes into.

No dis- respect intended here at all and thank you for your service. It sounds like you have thought out the labor but I have to warn you that this might be a nightmare for you as a father in the event one of your sons dies! I'm not saying to not do it but you should think of that possibility and what that would mean to you and your family should it happen. This is a dangerous occupation, if you follow through with it; I would recommend you make your son/son's get certified tree worker credentials at the ISA then at least in your heart you know they have the knowledge of how to perform the work to safety standards of this profession and you would have done due diligence as a father. You as well should seek to obtain it for a start being your experience is lacking and also work with a company long enough to get a grasp as well.

 

[Marshy]

Sorry, I haven't read all the replies so forgive me if it's already been stated...
Step one, start reading. Since you have a fair amount of time left in the service and not much time to actually develop on the job type skills, start getting educated about proper cutting and rigging techniques.
Step two, learn about what knots are used and become proficient in tying them.
Step three, watch YouTube. Yes, as stupid as it might sound there is some good info on there. The harder part is knowing what is good and what is bad info. August Hunicke and Buckin Billy Ray operate a tree service and give some good tips. Their videos are not strictly tree removal in nature so don't expect them to 100% educational.

 

[Rangerbait]

Sorry, I haven't read all the replies so forgive me if it's already been stated...
Step one, start reading. Since you have a fair amount of time left in the service and not much time to actually develop on the job type skills, start getting educated about proper cutting and rigging techniques.
Step two, learn about what knots are used and become proficient in tying them.
Step three, watch YouTube. Yes, as stupid as it might sound there is some good info on there. The harder part is knowing what is good and what is bad info. August Hunicke and Buckin Billy Ray operate a tree service and give some good tips. Their videos are not strictly tree removal in nature so don't expect them to 100% educational.

Good advice...I’ve been watching both of their vids, as well as Climbing Arborist, and Educated Arborist. I do have climbing and aerial rescue experience, as well as some logging experience, so I’m not starting from scratch as far as those skill sets are concerned. I am pursuing the ISA climber cert, and will definitely try to get on with some of the local crews. Hopefully I can find some that are actually climbing, and not just doing everything from the bucket truck.

 

[NeSurfcaster]

Tree cutting insurance is crazy expensive compared to my small pool service company. My tree cutting boss says he pays 75,000 a year for liability insurance and I thought that was crazy. No Tree To Big I guess the company you work for has many crews for the insurance to be that high.

 

[CacaoBoy]

It sounds like you are considering doing some moonlighting to acquire knowledge while you are still on active duty. Maybe the rules have changed or are different for your service, but when I was on active duty, anyone contemplating off duty employment needed to get permission from the command. I would doubt that permission would be given due to the inherent dangers in the work and the risk that you could become nondeployable. If getting permission is an issue, possibly presenting it as an educational training program -- to become a certified arborist -- would be better received than if it just looked like you wanted to make some money on the side.

 

[gary courtney]

Here are somethings I just encountered with an arborist I contracted to clean some tops up at my residence.
1. Show up at time you say!
2. Have your crew fully clothed.
3. Do not allow your crew to throw cigarette butts all over a clients property
4. No foul language
5 if you damage property just admit
6 do every thing you verbally agree to do
7 do not allow crew to roam on ones property
8 the customers place is not a toilet to be used at whim,especially with neighbors and children around.

 

[BC WetCoast]

Here are somethings I just encountered with an arborist I contracted to clean some tops up at my residence.
1. Show up at time you say!
2. Have your crew fully clothed.
3. Do not allow your crew to throw cigarette butts all over a clients property
4. No foul language
5 if you damage property just admit
6 do every thing you verbally agree to do
7 do not allow crew to roam on ones property
8 the customers place is not a toilet to be used at whim,especially with neighbors and children around.

Couple of comments
If you're the 3rd job of the day, don't be surprised if the crew shows up at a different time. The jobs in front may go faster or more likely slower than expected.
But what if it's pants off dance off day?

It's 2018, every word in the book is in common usage.

Make sure you have written contract for everything you want done, in the way you want it done. I had that today, I followed the contract, but the homeowner wanted more done. Too bad, the salesman gave you a price for the work on the contract and that's the work I've done. If the contract doesn't say what you wanted, then why did you sign the contract.