Timber Felling

[StIhL MaGnUm]

Ok go check out this link and scroll down to the fifth pic and tell me why did he notch the tree this way and why did he put a step dutchman in also??Just lookin for some feedback from everyone..

http://www.mountainstateland.com/timber.html

later Rob.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i'm not in favor of step dutchmans, steer from'em!!! i try to go for slower, smooth, less impacting, safer motions. i think that Dutchies work best using full slamming force on uneven face (step in the way), one side high. The more force slamming onto the step in face pitches the path to the opposite side. i think Ox plays with this max. force and capturing/using it in such ways most. i might jump a kerf dutchman, or steer a swing dutchman, but work other strategies besides uneven faces slamming together.

i see a step you might be talking about, but believe it might be where the cutter took out the root flair from the side of the hinge fold. i think the hinge is 180* from the face it lifts into, i think the step shown is 90* from either. i think pic #6 shows the spar passing by step on side, not over it. i might put a step here for passing the powerhead to this side, on this side of spar to direction of cut, would place chain high, and powerhead low, demanding more clearance.

Great pix! Looks like low cutting to maximize timber length, center mast plunge to reduce cracks in most valuable/widest wood. Low cuts, also grant that small lean the most leverage possible on hinge, giving best chance of predictable fall path. i like cutting in 'ready to run' mode standing, not being worried about lumber.

 

[ranger]

The faller must be awful brave to turn his back on that tree as it goes down! Hopefully the supervisor wasn't watching! Nice pic's though, thanks.

Matt

 

[Rootbeer]

Look at picture eight

I would be scared that dam thing would roll on him.He looks like he's going to crap his paints.Not even a wedge. Thats the first infraction I would wright him up on.:alien:

 

[rbtree]

Maybe the cut is opening up on him, and he has no need for a wedge...Also, he only has that short bar in a little way, perhaps he finished the cut on the uphill side.

Yep, that's only a root flare removal cut...

 

[Kevin]

Considering it`s a leaning tree he might be trying to use the dutchman to turn the tree.

 

[Jock]

Is that a branch he is using to hammer the wedge in with?

 

[Gypo Logger]

I have never heard of a Dutchman being used to commit a Hardwood in a different direction, but it may work on a Softwood.
The best way to commit a Softwood if you dont have wedges is to slope the undercut and backcut about 40 degrees down to bring the tree around, but you have to know what you are doing.
Twenty years ago, I was known as the Wayne Gretsky of tree spacing and had this technique down pat.
John- The Sexual Intelectual ( F!@#$en Knowitall)

 

[Kevin]

STEP DUTCHMAN: An intentional alteration of standard falling technique to solve problems of maintaining a lead. The Step Dutchman is put in play by sawing off the lean side holding wood and placement of a step (rock, wood) into the face to force the tree to pivot to the desired direction.

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/logging_advisor/glossary/glossary.html

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Like RB, i'd say that he is relieving pull in pic. 8, so fiber is pulling apart and the fork in the distance is dogging log from rolling down hill, as the uphill side keeps the log from moving. Then release final cut would be from safer uphill side, possibly dealing with compression and needing wedge at that point.

i think the evacuation route after that spar is fully committed in that front step lock isn't bad, maybe a lil cluttered. Probably looks like a funny angle do to camera, but i kinda sort 45* from reverse throw on hinge flap out of it.

Seeing as we are armchairing:

With that slight (can't really see head) lean, do ya think he'd come deeper in the face with bigger saw?

What do you guys think of plunge cutting the center mast in face?

Lil, lost on angles Mr. Gypo, but like the torn fibre triangle, roostertailed up from working hard!

edit- nice link on the Glossary of logging terms, thanx! The dutchman descriptions sound like straight out of Dent's 'bible'.

 

[Gypo Logger]

One of my obnoxious neighbours droped over today for a beverage. Man, it's hard to get good help over the phone.
John

 

[StIhL MaGnUm]

I find myself doing alot of plunge cutting the face especially on trees the like to fiber pull easily it helps that problem alot,it took me a while to notice in the series of pics that one of them is a different tree and faller...Gypo I agree with you on the softwood dutchman and the sloping cuts I have personally done this a few times and it seems to work good I have also seen a few friends do it as well..


Later Rob..

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Dutchmans are tricker to do right, tend to use innteruption of massive force before meeting faces, rediverting it wide for swing. Dent describes it as more powerful than just a well shaped hinge strip, but takes more caution to control, as you are playing with immense power.

It is so easy to mess up, with devastating consequence with it that some forms of it are outright illegal in some circles/ locals. Just a caution to those that don't know!

Here is a link i found buried in Kev's OSHA Lumber Glossary link. In the user's guide link from that page is a small course on 'lumbering' etc., this is from that:

OSHA Results of Incorrect Felling

Going on to the next page, shows bucking out of bind strategy, that follows Dent's lines, for his 'bible' "Pro Timber Falling" (a must have, probably about the best, cheapest investment you can make in efficiency and safety; save perhaps eyewear) and the manipulation of compressed/tensioned fibres goes into bucking and is shown there. A lot more cuts are made bucking than dropping; understanding and predicting forces in bucking can teach a lot about felling. For it is all dealing with force, fibre, leverage etc. with the same tools : saw, wedge (sometimes line) and brain!

i learned a lot about triangle hinges and there power while bucking, in bucking you can practice and observe that many times in immediate succcession, dialing in things; till they sink in!

 

[Gypo Logger]

I find there are alot of unnecessary antics and showboating when it comes to timber felling. Some believe that the more complicated they make it, the more professional they appear to be.
A simple undercut and well placed backcut works in 99% of situatations, and anyone who says otherwise is just a leader of fools.
We only have two forces here, gravity and weight. The only trees that need extra special consideration are heavy leaners.
I guess anyone is entitled to chew at a tree with a saw in any manner that they please, just as a beaver would that wants to get it as close to the pond as possible.
I for one, am the best timber faller in the whole wide world.

 

[My2cents]

I have felled quite a few trees on my property. Many were going in the direction I did not want them to fall, some angled 10 to 20 dergees. I would simply cut a hinge in the direction I would want the tree to fall towards. set a come along and chain in the direction of fall. Snug up the chain paying close attention to the tree. I would then proceed with the back cut watching carfully to see the cut open up. Some of the the Trees would require a couple of chain tensionings before the center of gravity would be shifted into the correct direction. Some times to tree will roll a little towards to ground. this method I employed always seemed to be in control. I saw a thread on Barber poling here and then I got a little concerned. Is my method considered dangerous?

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i don't showboat (but i really get off on ushering a massive tree just right like a ballet of smooth, precise movement) but like to go in well armed info wise, sometimes practice with those skills to sharpen, learn and maintain them. i think a fella has to put his time in on such things to have those powerfull understandings available when needed. When pulling trees with lines i think leverage and torque can enter in.

In tree, i do use triangle hinges, to fight the downward pull on horizontal sweeps (sometimes the best/ clearest path for the largest 'package'), for just as in a leaner, i am steering 90* from gravity pull!

i think with a bigger saw, on a slight lean like that pictured (once again can't see head); i would desire to facecut deeper, to undermine more the center of gravity to the face. i think this would fall more positively, and earlier with more controlling fiber. Yet involve just facing and backcutting to maintain simplicity as you say, 2 people can seem to make the same moves with diffrent results (like changes that backcutting speed can make).

i also think in municipal removals, the possible fall paths and direct liability is diffrent than in forest.

i think laying something with its lean, invokes the full force of gravity, laying it 90* or so to the lean, fights gravity some, landing softer. i also believe in forcing things over into their face with lift or pull, so it folds with more controlling fibre, trying to minimize force (unless i need it to break thrugh other branches, or hit a pile of logs HARD and slide away to prevent damage to plants at base etc.) and maximize steering. Usually working on lawns etc.

i might steer with a triangle hinge into wide mouth face, have played with step dutchies (don't use 'em), might kerf dutch for hopping a top over fence etc. The rest is wedge and line for steering and forcing more hinge fibre.

i also soak in what i can from Gypo-Posts! Trying to meld and mix it in.........

edit -2cents all this is tricky dangerous, hard to confidentally advise blindly to so many things. I think that in good wood, with an unobstructed/perfect face, high leverage of pull on CoB(braced well) and a backcut that doesn't proceed to slow (can cause barber chairing), and NOT severing the hinge with saw; you can safely overcome some leans away from face. i hope you aren't alternating cutting and tightenig by yourselt to pull over. a $15 throwline can be a cheap investment for gaining extra leverage.

Not everyone sees as i do, but ya might try these 2 threads:
Pulling Strategy- get higher leverage safely
Importance of CoB in Pulling Over