Timberwolf TW P1 leaking hydraulic fluid out of breather

[CaseyForrest]

Trying to figure this out. It only does it when the oil warms up and the hotter the oil gets, the more it pushes out. Conventional wisdom tells me that its overfilled. So I took the cap off the filter housing and sure enough, it looked as if it is overfilled. But I wanted to cover all my bases and let it sit overnight to check the fluid cold... And its not overfilled. Its actually low. Its not my splitter but will take up semi permanent residence here so I want to take care of it, but this has me stumped.

I don't understand how the filter housing works.... When I pull the filter, which is a mesh screen, not a screw on filter, the oil doesn't immediately, or even let it sit for a few, drain back into the tank. It obviously does because overnight the housing was empty. Fired up long enough to run 1 cycle and removed the filter cap and I was again met with the condition of the oil not immediately draining back into the tank when the filter is pulled out.

Could it be possible that since the oil level is low its getting warmer than it normally would if it was at capacity? The owner says it has always leaked a little from the breather, but right now it gets to the point of a steady flow of fluid from the breather.

 

[LipDawg]

I don't know if its the same for the TW's, but most of the Speedco style splitters will blow fluid out the vent if they aren't level side to side..

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

I'm not familiar with a Timberwolf, but it certainly will expand a fair bit. On my processor I have a 20 or 25 gal tank and its a good inch difference between cold and hot. I usually only fill it to about 4-5" from the top when it's cold.

By cold I don't mean -20* either, "regular" outside temp, like 50*.

 

[CaseyForrest]

Instructions say to fill the tank to within 2" from the top. 4.5 gallon tank.

Right now after sitting overnight it's at the bottom of the housing, which is probably 5" from the top.

Splitter is sitting level and where my speeco also used to sit. It never leaked any fluid.

sent from a field

 

[moondoggie]

My old La Fonte splitter does it only after i fill it and i have the front of the splitter very unlevel. and i stop cycling the cylinder. If i keep the cylinder cyling quickly ( not letting it be idle 10 sec or so) it wont overflow. After a week or so it stops this nonsense... i dont know why though. It has done that 5 years now.

 

[CaseyForrest]

I have noticed it will stop coming out if the cylinder is being cycled. But thats probably because the fluid is going into the cylinder rather than back through the return line into the filter housing.

Ill have to video the extent of the fluid running out. Its like turning on the kitchen faucet. Its not a slow or even fast drip, its a steady stream.

 

[muddstopper]

I looked up the specs for the tW P1 splitter. It has a 4.5 gal tank and a 11gpm 2stage pump. My first thoughts are that entire contents of the hyd tank is circulating about 2.5 times per min. This doesnt give the oil a lot of time to cool down. Fluid level is supposed to be about 2 inches from top of tank, this would be to allow expansion of the oil as it warms up. The machine also has a fine mesh screen in the tank that is supposed to be changed every 1000 hrs. Since oil doesnt seem to be returning well thru the filter. I would inspect the filter to make sure it isnt clogged up. Also, if the oil is hot and your checking the oil level by looking inside the cap, the reason it might seem to be going down slow might be because the expaned oil is already up in the screen and the level is only going down as the oil cools down. Saw dust has a way of getting into oil, even what seems like well sealed tanks. Could be the filter is clogged and need changing or cleaned. I would also check for moisture in the oil. If the oil is expanding enough to leak out of the tank, then when it cools, it has to be drawing outside air ( and sawdust) in. Air contains moisture. While the oil might not have enough moisture to turn milky white and gooey, it can cause foaming and oil pushing out of the top of the tank. Since this machine has been leaking oil for a while, I suspect that at sometime oil has also been added. Did the owner top the tank off with the same type of oil the machine came with, or maybe use a different weight or type. Also even if using the same grade of oil, is he using AW32, AW46, AW68. If the weather you are splitting in is normally hot, you might want to think about using the aw46 or aw68, while for cold weather, then the aw32 might be a better choice. Does the oil leak out the breather when its cold outside, or only during the summer. If it seems to be more of a summer time leak, a heavier grade of oil might be the fix. You also stated that the actual oil level when cold is a little low. For me, I would consider the tank size marginable at best and a low oil level could be causing some cavitation at the pump. Cavitation mixes air with oil and causes expansion, foaming and overflowing tanks, as well as excessive wear on the pump.

 

[CaseyForrest]

All good ideas, Ill see if I can hit every one....

There is a gauge on the housing to measure restriction, its still in the bottom part of the green and the screen itself doesn't appear to be plugged.

Oil returns fine through the filter. Until it gets hot.

When I pull the cap on the filter, I also remove it (the filter) and the oil level only drops in the housing by what the screen is displacing. It should drop to tank level, I would think. There is an open hole in the bottom of the housing. And the fluid should not be expanding from 5" or so low to overflowing.

The breather cover has a filter on it to prevent dirt from being pulled in as the oil cools. Its pretty fine, looks like gore tex even though I know its not.

Owner says hes never added oil to it. I and 1 other individual have used this splitter and neither of us have added any oil.

My original thought was it was overfilled, now I believe the problem may be under-filled. I'm going to change whats left of the fluid and bring it back to TW specs and go from there.

Its still boggling my mind though that even though its low, it blows out the breather only when the oil gets warm.

 

[CaseyForrest]

So here's what I think I've found.

It was definitely low on fluid. Let's assume it holds 4 gallons when the 2" is factored in. This is what I got out of it and there was about 1 quart of oil already in the catch pan

Not even close to capacity.

On the filter, it appears as if the housing has a check valve of sorts in it. When I pulled the fitting it started glugging like these new fangled epa gas cans. That would explain why the housing was empty this morning. As the oil cooled and contracted it pulled the oil out of the housing.

sent from a field

 

[muddstopper]

On the filter, it appears as if the housing has a check valve of sorts in it. When I pulled the fitting it started glugging like these new fangled epa gas cans. That would explain why the housing was empty this morning. As the oil cooled and contracted it pulled the oil out of the housing.

sent from a field

Not sure about a check valve, a return filter should have a bypass valve in case the filter gets plugged so oil can return to tank.

The oil in the catch can looked like burnt motor oil, I hope that color is from the quart that was already in the catch pan. Since you have drained the oil already, I think I would refill with AW46. Those two stage pumps are gear pumps and a gear pump can benefit from a little thicker oil. Dont know how well it work out in MI winters, but if its to thick, you can always let the machine warmup for a minute or two before using.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Is the tank what the pan is near, between the 2 tires? What is the hose coming off of?
Just asking because it looks like engine oil. I've never seen hydraulic oil like that, it'd have to be very burnt to be jet black.


Factory fill on most splitters is 10wt oil, either ATF or AW32.

I've been running 303 in my stuff, mostly because it's about $35 a pail vs $50 for aw32.

The interest says it's 20wt (aw46) but at -10* it pours much better than aw32 so I dunno.

 

[CaseyForrest]

What was in the pan was used motor oil, that's why it's so dark. What came out of the splitter was almost clear, so not in bad condition.

Just split this

Using the 4 way on everything and it was all that size. Not a drop came out of the breather. Must have been the low fluid level.

I did pull the filter housing to see exactly what was going on there and no check valve. But the interior housing that the mesh sits in has a nipple that goes almost to the bottom of the tank. That's why it was gurgling at first.

sent from a field

 

[CaseyForrest]

Oh, got a 5 gallon bucket of the 303 oil Valley referred to above. It was $25 and seems to work fine. Couldn't find a viscosity on it.

I normally won't split when it's this warm out but I have to get wood stacked. So my normal splitting temps help keep the oil cooled and I'm sure that's a factor.

sent from a field

 

[kevin j]

There is probably a light (2 to 5 psi) back check on the outlet of the filter into the tank. It is there to prevent oil siphoning backwards when a line is disconnected somewhere. Also holds oil in the filter so it doesn't drain out when system is shut down, or filter is opened to change element, if the filter is mounted on bottom or side of tank. Niether of these situations may apply to a splitter, but it may be part of the filter as a mass produced item, not made special for this application. Industrial filters have all sorts of options that can be added or deleted, but lower priced stuff might be limited versions, so the mfr just had the check there as part of the filter purchase.
There should also be a bypass valve but that would be in the head of the filter, where oil comes in.

If the volume is going up with use, and causes overflowing, I would bet it is getting air entrained in it. Does the fluid look clear at morning startup, but milky or cloudy after running? It could be air. Most likely culprits are a suction line leak, or a pump shaft seal leak. They can leak air in under suction without leaking oil out when system is shut down.
Water also holds air in the oil and reduces the ability let og of the air in the tank.

 

[muddstopper]

Hello Kevin, Hows things in the Great White North

 

[kevin j]

no snow yet.
Your processor on hold?

 

[muddstopper]

no snow yet.
Your processor on hold?

yea, had my knee replaced a few months ago and been sort of out of commission. Just about ready to get back at it. cooler weather coming and that will help.