Time for a new wood hauler! Input PLEASE.

[giXXer]

Well, the time has finally come, I need a new truck. My 1999 7.3 powerstroke super duty with over 260,000 miles has more than paid for itself plowing snow, hauling tractors, wood, the camper, etc. I plow snow professionally, need a reliable truck, and can't afford to have my truck in the shop with time consuming repairs. Unfortunately, the Chevy or GMC duramax is not an option as I use a Boss poly V plow and the additional weight is not kind on independant front ends. The horrible ground clearance with the GM is also an issue with a couple of my plow accounts and some of my firewood spots. I need a heavy duty, straight front axle diesel truck with longevity. I have narrowed it down to Ford F250/350 or the Dodge 2500/3500. I absolutely love the look of the new Ford and their interiors. My question is, how is the new 6.4L Ford diesel? I am skeptical about their new powerplant and the twin turbo. I will probably end up with a Dodge as I know the Cummins is the diesel to own. I do not know that much about them as my last Dodge diesel was in '93 and that truck would tow a house, but was a slow turd. What are the typical differences between the 2500 and 3500? Anyone plow snow with one? Even though I want a 2008, there are a couple of 07's around for sale. Is there a difference in engines/drivetrains/option groups between 2007-2008? Are there any years to stay away from? Are the 2010's better trucks and worth the little extra investment upfront? I know this isn't a truck forum, but we all use pick-ups (almost everyone anyway) for our firewood/plowing etc. and the "best diesel truck" thread went over so well I thought I would try to tap into some of the expertise available on this forum. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Highbeam]

As you probably know, the emissions crap required as of 2007/2008 makes all the new diesels fuel hogging beasts. If you don't care about fuel consumption then you would love the new Dodge. Personally I would get one with the 5.9 liter engine from before the switch in 2007. So much better.

I own a 2000 F350 with the 7.3 and I like how fords look, the old 7.3 is the best. Their engines went downhill since 2003 when the 6.0 was introduced.

Go dodge. Little to no difference in the 3500/2500 except the sticker on the door, same as your ford. Always go for the higher 350/3500.

 

[giXXer]

Thanks for your input. If I could get the Ford with a Cummins I'd do it in a heartbeat. I knew the 250's and 350's could be identical depending on options, but didn't know if the Dodge 3500 would come standard with some options not available on the 2500. My current truck is actually a 250, but has the ambulance package (dual alternators, heavy springs, etc.) and optional dana 60 in front making it the same as the F350's I have found. It really doesn't matter to me if the truck has the dana 50 or the 60 as the only difference is the ring & pinion, carrier, and the smaller axle shaft ends to fit the smaller carrier (if it was a mud truck or rock crawler I'd care). I just want the heaviest duty options as I tend to own them (and use them) for several years.

Is the 2007 Dodge cummins smogged out as well? Or would a nice, low mile 2006 cummins be the way to go?

 

[boostnut]

find a low mileage 06 or early 07 without the dpf (diesel particulate filter). the gov't mandated a bunch of wonderful emissions garbage found on 07's (except the early build dates) thru current trucks. they rob power, fuel, and are stupid expensive to repair. call your local stealorship and price a dpf for an 07, dodge, gm, or ford. you'll look for a used one after that call.

 

[Straightgrain]

I bought my last chevy in 1998.

 

[clearance]

Keep what you got, spend money on it, you know what you have.

 

[Slvrmple72]

If that 7.3 isn't too tired yet I would just keep plugging away with it! I have heard mixed reviews on the new Ford diesel, nothing but love for the new Duramax, and not enough about the Dodge but the Cummins already has a well established reputation! I have the 01 7.3 powerstroke with 118k on it and really love my truck: crew cab, longbed and 4x4. Best wishes on your decision!

 

[hanniedog]

A local auction service has a sale on Sept 26 with 1996 F350 4x4 listed. 460 gas, auto with 44,000 miles a very nice truck. Don't know if this would be of interest. The company is Baker Bonnigson Realty, they do have a web site.

 

[fiasco]

here's an interesting read

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/ford-completes-in-house-super-duty-diesel/

Even the local Ford dealer won't recommend a new diesel Super Duty, you get better fuel economy with the V10. The huge filter/regen setups just make the trucks suck fuel. They all should have gone with the urea injection setup.

Maybe this new Ford engine will work...but I'd give it a few years to be sure. The urea injection is a step in the right direction.

Biggest problem with the Ford is the engine, biggest problem with the Cummins Dodge is the Dodge. The solution?

http://www.fordcummins.com/

My father's had three Power Strokes in the past decade (one for only a few months, when the full service station filled it with unleaded...kaboom!), the 7.3 felt like a more rugged truck (although it was also a stick, his 05 is an auto), but watching the boost gauge go over 20 psi in the new truck is a hoot.

BTW, I use a Subaru Legacy wagon to haul my firewood, 0.25 cord at a time.

 

[Nathan75]

Yeah, if going new buy now. the 10's will have even more emmisions crap. Ford and GM will have a seperate tank for "Diesel Emmision Fluid". Dodge has the 10's already and uses a different technology to reduce NOX so it does not need the emmision fluid. yes since o7 the milage droped on the diesels. Ford will have an in house built diesel for trucks built starting Jan 2010, they will be 2011 model year and the engine is supposed to be a 6.7 V8 "scorpion". I do not trust Fords engine design, and now they want to build a diesel! The 6.4L they had prior has already had its share of issues and because it was only used for about 3 years parts will be expensive. I personaly I own a 2004 2500 Dodge with the Cummins. I plow commercial also and it is a beast. 92,000 hard miles and I have put in one ball joint, one tie rod, two sets of front brakes (am due again here in a month). Had one trans issue recently and so I upgraded the valve body and it is great. I haul around a 970# 9 foot strait blade all winter and 2500+ pounds of salt in the bed.

 

[giXXer]

Thanks everyone for your input. Still interested in hearing more if anyone has any suggestions. What I have been told is it may be a few months for the 2010 Dodge to come out. I'm also having a little difficulty finding an 09 equipped the way I want. I would seriously love to buy another Ford since mine has been such a great truck. I have a friend that works in Peoria, Il for Cat and he had a large part in designing the fuel system for the Powerstrokes. His boss was hired by Ford to build the diesel in house and from the sounds of it there is going to be a few year learning curve. The first engines produced are rumored to be plagued with problems. Muddying the water, of course, is several guys that love their new 6.4 Ford.

Most suggestions that I have gotten in the last week have been to find an early build 07 Dodge cummins. No DPF and the computer is easily manipulated. I have read the bulletin (it is posted on a Dodge diesel forum) that explains Dodge's new government mandated ECM which "disables" itself if tampered with. The truck will then not start or run at all and has to go back to the dealership. The dealership then uses its wireless ECM diagnostic computer which downloads new updates automatically through the internet, but also uploads your truck's info silently and automatically and sends it to Dodge. They track ECM flashes, speed, RPMs, and other data that "Big Brother" can use. So the nuts and bolts of it are: if you upgrade your truck or tamper with it Dodge will know and void your warranty. There are specific instructions to the dealer on what to do and you will end up paying for a new ECM and lose your warranty. I thought it was BS until I read the bulletin from Dodge myself. You can't get around it even if you have a buddy at the dealership.

I have seriously thought about keeping my truck and throwing some money at it. I'm just worried about the very costly repairs associated with a diesel truck with 260,000+ miles on it. Glow plugs and oil pan replacement = about $3,000. It still has the original tranny and transfer case that will eventually need to be replaced. These repairs easily equal the value of the truck and I still have to deal with all of the issues associated with a 10 year old truck. I plow way too much snow to deal with the cost of downtime, let alone the repairs.

I'm really fired up about about getting a new truck, it's been a long time! Now I just have to find the right truck and year.

 

[Nathan75]

Thanks everyone for your input. Still interested in hearing more if anyone has any suggestions. What I have been told is it may be a few months for the 2010 Dodge to come out. I'm also having a little difficulty finding an 09 equipped the way I want. I would seriously love to buy another Ford since mine has been such a great truck. I have a friend that works in Peoria, Il for Cat and he had a large part in designing the fuel system for the Powerstrokes. His boss was hired by Ford to build the diesel in house and from the sounds of it there is going to be a few year learning curve. The first engines produced are rumored to be plagued with problems. Muddying the water, of course, is several guys that love their new 6.4 Ford.

Most suggestions that I have gotten in the last week have been to find an early build 07 Dodge cummins. No DPF and the computer is easily manipulated. I have read the bulletin (it is posted on a Dodge diesel forum) that explains Dodge's new government mandated ECM which "disables" itself if tampered with. The truck will then not start or run at all and has to go back to the dealership. The dealership then uses its wireless ECM diagnostic computer which downloads new updates automatically through the internet, but also uploads your truck's info silently and automatically and sends it to Dodge. They track ECM flashes, speed, RPMs, and other data that "Big Brother" can use. So the nuts and bolts of it are: if you upgrade your truck or tamper with it Dodge will know and void your warranty. There are specific instructions to the dealer on what to do and you will end up paying for a new ECM and lose your warranty. I thought it was BS until I read the bulletin from Dodge myself. You can't get around it even if you have a buddy at the dealership.

I have seriously thought about keeping my truck and throwing some money at it. I'm just worried about the very costly repairs associated with a diesel truck with 260,000+ miles on it. Glow plugs and oil pan replacement = about $3,000. It still has the original tranny and transfer case that will eventually need to be replaced. These repairs easily equal the value of the truck and I still have to deal with all of the issues associated with a 10 year old truck. I plow way too much snow to deal with the cost of downtime, let alone the repairs.

I'm really fired up about about getting a new truck, it's been a long time! Now I just have to find the right truck and year.

I am not sure on the release date of to 2010 MY Dodge, as far as I know there will be zero changes to the truck emision wise so see no huge delay there. I actually work for a truck equipment company and we are a in the new vehicle pools with GM, Ford and Dodge. Have not had any problems getting chassis from any of them other than GM a year back with the AAM axle strike. We have already seen our share of 6.4 Ford issues right off the car carriers. As far as customer feed back some love the 6.4 and some hate it. Some have had major problems and some have had none. Some issues we have heard are the injectors going south, ECM's that quit for no reason (one guy has had 8 ECM's in his 09 already) and of course the starting fires issue.
I agree with the statement to look for a early 07 or older Cummins if you can find a decent one. Not that the newer ones are bad but you lose some fuel mileage. By the way, as if the diesel option is not high enough, expect to see a big increase for the trucks built after Jan 2010. With the cost and the lack of fuel savings (not to mention diesel emission fluid) we may see diesel pickups as a dying breed.

 

[boostnut]

If you end up buying a new ford I suggest talking with these guys:
http://www.rivercitydiesel.com/
Talk to Josh, he'll offer you some options. He's got an 08 or 09 that started out life stock getting 10-11 mpg. After $2000 in upgrades (retail price) he was up to 18-19 mpg making nearly 600 rear wheel hp. Not bad for a couple g's.

 

[czar800]

I just got a 06 3500 Dodge 4x4 5.9 and like it. Its been getting about 14-16mpg towing a 6-7k trailer some of the time.

 

[coog]

I think one of these would be great for plowing.Great fuel economy, too.

 

[rick2752]

If buying used avoid the 03 and 04s, havent heard alot bad about later years other than smog restrictions. Im not gonna sway you one way or another but do some reading on Fords new diesel for 2011. We are taking over production and international isnt making it anymore. It sucks that Fords Rep got burnt so bad by Internationals engine, but you have to stand behind your product!! If you decide and when you are shopping tell the dealer you have X-plan, He will show you the price, no haggling. Send me a PM and I will get you a PIN number for a pretty decent discount on a 250/350.

Rick

 

[Ske-bum]

If that is the type of truck you like I would look for a used one. Good ones are out there. That being said I have had a 1999 F250 powerstroke and I currently drive a '08 F250 Powerstroke. I'm getting 16 mpg with the new one, I got 18-19 with the old one.

However it looks like the more I drive it the better the mileage is getting, the truck has less then 10,000 on it.

I looked at Dodge before I bought this one, but seriously it looks like the interior was put together by 2 yr olds. Love that engine though.

 

[STANG302]

If you'd like first hand acounts of problems with all three trucks check out THEDIESELGARAGE.COM.

From what I've seen dodge and ford have the better trucks. The 6.4 has been bullet proof so far. The 6.7 has proven its self and the new auto trans are holding up like a trans should. But they suffer from allot of emisions equipment failures. But both trucks are fuel hogs with the emisions junk. That can be remedied by removing it! Overall people seem to be extatic with these new trucks the power, refinement and reliability are lightyears ahead of the old diesels. And do not by a 6.0. They are just not worth the hassle. Although I have not had any problems with mine, I just hate having the feeling of when am I going to have problems.

And in my opinion Chevy still does not make a truck! They work fine for the people that daily drive them and haul the camper on the weekend. But when you work them they fall apart. I'll use my old man as an example. He has a dmax 3/4 ton. And intended to use it as a work truck for his buisness. And well the suspension just couldn't take it. So all his work trucks are now 96 F450 and an 01 F350 both are 7.3's. F-seriies along with heavy duty dodges are made to take the abuse of the daily grind a work truck enduires.

 

[Hickorynut]

2006 dodge 2500 owner

Very nice truck with a great engine. I did alot of research but from what I understand, and i could be wrong (ask my wife) there is basically zero difference between a 2500 and a non dually 3500. I have a small dumpster company and we use that to haul trailers into the dump and we scale out over 26000 alot of the time. We have no problem pulling the weight but since we had a bumper hitch, we had to install helpers that is were the differnece lies. A few more situations and cautions we run into, The stock tires on this thing come with a get stuck guarantee. They are not for any type of off roading at all. In fact, if it sees a mud puddle and you are on the pavement you will be spinning. The second thing and my biggest worry is the Chyrsler transmission. I am not certain they will hold up for a long time. Before 2005 they had a different front end and had to be rebuilt before 100000 at least that is what my mechanic tells me. Your right, there is plenty of ground clearance. Overall, we have 50000 on it and it seems to be a nice truck.

 

[Snowchief]

I have a 2008 Dodge 2500 gasoline with the plow package and gets 12mpg all day long. Good torque for what it is (gas engine). Gets about 8 with the plow on.

I bought new with a gas engine for two reasons:
1) it was a loooong wait for a diesel because apparently everyone was waiting for the new cummins in late 2008 MY for whatever reason;
2) Dodge would not warranty suspension on the diesel once you admit to hanging a plow on it. The weight of the diesel + almost any plow exceeds the GFWR of the truck. Keep this in mind and ask about it if you buy a new anything with a diesel.

By the way, I've heard nothing but positives from guys plowing with their diesel dodges, I'm just saying that the dealer might give you a tough time if it requires any warranty work.