To top or not to top?

[Neem]

I work for a small company and I am the only climber. My bosssss is a short minded redneck (we don't use that word but you'd call him so...)...he's only about quantity, not about quality and safety. When I work on my own I do things my way (try to do in the proper way) but when I work for him I have to " compromise"....He's not caring about trees but only about his wallet and if the costumer says CUT here... he says ...well, you cut there...and every time is a big fight...Last week he took me to a park inside a factory where there are 6 Oaks and 2 Sweetgums...they go from 60 to 80 ft and he wants me to top them (remove 20-25 Ft)....that's not only against trees' nature...that is also against my nature...but here's the problem...if I don't do he calls another guy with the bucket truck who will top the trees and I will lose my money...:angry2and to tell the truth I'd need them right now).....in any case trees will be topped and damaged...so... should I do the work or not?

M

 

[derwoodii]

Hmm hard spot your in Neem I say start looking for a way out asap.
Hope you can find a better new job easy with a better boss.
If you work for some one right or wrong sadly you do as they say unless its illegal etc.
So you gotta do as he says if hes not willing to listen or learn its his loss and intime his type will disappear.
Still knockin 1/3 off a sweetgums not unheard of. I done it plenty of times. You got to do it with care for the tree. Find the balance of customer wish and the tree health.

 

[Neem]

You're right Derwoodii but not so easy to change job right now in Italy...we have hard time here..lots of people unemployed out here and who has a job he keeps it... even in adverse conditions. I am planning to start to work on my own and start something with a friend of mine who has a small company...but it will still take some time..till then....keep on fighting:angry2:
M

 

[beowulf343]

Sounds like your "integrity" has a price. I've seen this often around here, speeches about proper tree care, yet when money is needed, proper tree care goes out the window. If you really believed what you were saying, you wouldn't do it. If enough treemen actually stood up for their beliefs, would the bosses finally take notice? Revolution has to start somewhere with someone.


Anyway, i'd do it, but i'm not a "proper arborist" either. I've practiced just about every offense that can be done to a tree. I'm frankly in it for the money and the fun. People won't like it, but you don't find me bleeting about doing things that go against my beliefs either.

 

[lxt]

Ive always done what the time period says is the right way???? when I was a kid helping out my Dad & his buddies 70`s era.. topping was the norm!! in the 80`s roundovers & dropcrotching replaced the hat rack!

90`s....enter "shigo mania" & whala tree terminology changes, Now you have crown reductions....hmmm & if I reduce by 1/3rd & pull ends = a roundover to me?????...the collar cut replaced the flush cut (for the better i might add) and so on......

while many will chime in with what they think is right or wrong......ultimately you must make that decision, most of my competition still top trees, flush cut & do things that are not considered right....BUT, right now people are looking at the bottom line (money) and the lowest price 90% of the time wins!!!


good luck,


LXT...............

 

[treeclimber101]

Unfortunately in your situation you need to do as told , its not your choice but defying him makes you poor so do what you need to do , his time will run out people will realize what he's selling is wrong and chances are he may change , but I have to say that there are companies around here that top alot of trees and they are proud of there work ... So you may want to consider changes companies

 

[Bermie]

Can you as much as possible make reduction cuts to laterals...?
Kind of compromise between outright topping and a hard reduction...

We do it with casuarinas over here, but they are weed trees and almost bombproof...I won't TOP them but I sure as heck will cut them back real hard to laterals and collars. At least its better than the landscapers coming along with their ladders and homelites and walloping them all to 20'.

 

[Neem]

Sounds like your "integrity" has a price. I've seen this often around here, speeches about proper tree care, yet when money is needed, proper tree care goes out the window. If you really believed what you were saying, you wouldn't do it. If enough treemen actually stood up for their beliefs, would the bosses finally take notice? Revolution has to start somewhere with someone.


Anyway, i'd do it, but i'm not a "proper arborist" either. I've practiced just about every offense that can be done to a tree. I'm frankly in it for the money and the fun. People won't like it, but you don't find me bleeting about doing things that go against my beliefs either.

If I didn't believe what i was saying, I wouldn't have written... and about my "integrity"...not here claiming to be a "proper perfect arborist" but when I do my own jobs, try to do them the way I think it's right...when not I try to compromise. That's it. and don't worry as far as i am concerned revolution has already started...but I'm not so stupid to put my family in trouble only because I dont'wanna dirty my "integrity"


Anyway if you wish to support my revolution, so that I can competely focus on that, I will send you the details of my check account ......

M

 

[Neem]

Can you as much as possible make reduction cuts to laterals...?
Kind of compromise between outright topping and a hard reduction...

I will try to compromise in some way...and this could be a good solution...at the end it's me going on the tree and doing the work...and usually customers are satisfied even if I don't do exactly as the poor redneck had said

At least its better than the landscapers coming along with their ladders and homelites and walloping them all to 20'.

...far far better

 

[boo]

As an owner, I inform the customer of the dangers in topping. It's their choice to follow the rules of research or not, it's their tree. I try to release myself from liability of negligence by informing them of the dangers.
Another reason I am the owner is because I have a hard time listening to an idiot telling me what and how to do... I've been the boss for over 18 years now.
I will do the work as the customer wants, only after allowing them to make an INFORMED DECISION.
If you refuse to do it, they will find someone else to do what they want done, be it correct or not.
The owner of your company may or may not already know this, but more than likely, if you give him/her static, it could cost you your job.
Ultimately, it's his/her name on the trucks, and you work for him/her.

 

[mjellison]

I hate being put in that situation. Nothing makes me angrier than spending the day mangling a beautiful tree and basically making the planet a little uglier. I think the practice of topping is dying out though, it seems at least where I live people are starting to realize the value of trees and how to properly take care of them. It's people like you too that will helping to change this, keep advocating for proper tree care and good luck getting started with your own gig

 

[Rftreeman]

if you have a problem with the way your boss does things then you have two choices, do it or find another employer.......your boss is giving the customer what they want rather people think it's right or not...

 

[Neem]

.....your boss is giving the customer what they want rather people think it's right or not...

That's the point... and I don't think that is professional, even if a lot of companies do....if I call an electrician he knows how to make a n electrical system , not me telling him how and where to pull the cables...the same should be with trees

M

 

[Rftreeman]

That's the point... and I don't think that is professional, even if a lot of companies do....if I call an electrician he knows how to make a n electrical system , not me telling him how and where to pull the cables...the same should be with trees

M

apples to oranges.........:deadhorse: move on to a different company if you feel it's not right but who are you to tell a client how his trees should look, if that's what he want's then give it or someone else will....

 

[Neem]

apples to oranges.........:deadhorse: move on to a different company if you feel it's not right but who are you to tell a client how his trees should look, if that's what he want's then give it or someone else will....

Now I get it....so tomorrow I wake up and I want my dog to have two legs....I go to the veterinarian and ask " Tired of my dog, wanna change something...can you cut down a couple of legs so that I have a two-leg dog?" ....who is he to tell me how MY dog should look???
M

 

[ozzy42]

Now I get it....so tomorrow I wake up and I want my dog to have two legs....I go to the veterinarian and ask " Tired of my dog, wanna change something...can you cut down a couple of legs so that I have a two-leg dog?" ....who is he to tell me how MY dog should look???
M

A poor comparison if you ask me.

Plants and animals are not the same thing.

Would you leave your family dog out in the middle of the yard during a thunder storm?

 

[Neem]

A poor comparison if you ask me.

...didn't ask you...and anyway it was not about animals being same as plants..( even if we could speak about this...many animals are far far better than many human beings.... :monkey: gotta lot to learn from them ..and so why poor plants should be regarded as inferior? )...but about being professional...and being professional doesn't mean do all the client ask just beacuse it's HIS tree...not a mercenary. this is just my poor opinion


And don't know in your country but here (unfortunately only at a local level...and not in the whole nation ...till now) there are laws that don't allow you to top trees or to cut them as you like...or you can get fined....sometimes very heavily....

M

 

[Neem]

Would you leave your family dog out in the middle of the yard during a thunder storm?

...........yessssssssss.......she's pretty wild...sort of wolf...likes running under heavy storms

 

[beowulf343]

...didn't ask you...and anyway it was not about animals being same as plants..( even if we could speak about this...many animals are far far better than many human beings.... :monkey: gotta lot to learn from them ..and so why poor plants should be regarded as inferior? )...but about being professional...and being professional doesn't mean do all the client ask just beacuse it's HIS tree...not a mercenary. this is just my poor opinion


And don't know in your country but here (unfortunately only at a local level...and not in the whole nation ...till now) there are laws that don't allow you to top trees or to cut them as you like...or you can get fined....sometimes very heavily....

M

Because i don't believe in neg repping, you are an idiot.

 

[Neem]

Because i don't believe in neg repping, you are an idiot.

oh oh oh...here we are...if you work as fast as you judge then you're the MAN Beowolfy ......been reading and waiting quite a bit before start posting cause i found threads and informations very useful and liked this site....unfortunately there are also people like you....wasn't you pointing the finger against my "integrity"???...and seen we are far away from the reason I started the thread.........I quit...you're the Winner...cause I don't believe in neg persons.

P.S. ....if you still wanna send money for my revolution (remember???) I take them....not angry