Tool Forum

[parrisw]

Im totally aware of using the appropriate charger for battery, ive probably been through more cordless tools here than most, Bosch, Makita, Fein, Hilti, Hitachi etc...I have heard this before and was just looking if someone could actually explain why, rather than just dont do it.

For what its worth, Nickle metal Hydried batteries arnt much better than Nickle Cadnium IMO, they just dont like opperating in heat above about 30c. The biggest killer for any type of battery is over charging.

Its to do with the peak voltages, nicad and nimh are way different per cell, each cell, well the ones that I use, are 3.7v per cell, about 4.2v fully charged. Nicad and Nimh are 1.2v per cell, this is where the discrepancy comes in unless your charger knows its a lithium battery.

 

[husq2100]

batteries are defintly getting better, I run hitachi 18v li-ion drills/impact driver/impact wrench/saber saw and Hilti 36v concrete drill, 24v dry wall gun...all Li-ion and whilst they are a step up from the old 7.2 ni-cad days (the tools have improved as well) they still have a way to go. I see some guys using 18v circular saws and grinders.....they really are useless (i have tested them)

 

[David (saltas)]

simple reason batteries go bang is anything gets too hot will brake its container

All battery chemistry types own properties
Two of these are the output voltage is different and so is the charging rates.
In the manufactures specifications you will find numbers specified as the "C5" and "C10" rates.
These rates required to charge the battery in 5 and 10 hours respectively.

All batteries have internal resistance
Power wasted and given of as heat is equal to the current squared by the resistance.

Charge it twice as fast generate four times the heat, which will also increase the resistance so the heat goes up some more.
Ten times the charging rate 100 times the heat.
Eventually the heat being generated will increase the resistance that will increase the heat that it will pass the critical point and go into thermal runaway and catch fire or bust the container (explode).

 

[promac850]

Here it is... she zips lug nuts right off without breaking a sweat.

Here is the Milton inflator I bought. Very well made, paid 35 bucks for it at amazon. It's real nice, since you air up the tire, release the lever, and it shows the tire pressure in the little window.

 

[Warped5]

Nice new toys, ProMac!

I know you'll enjoy!

 

[srcarr52]

Here it is... she zips lug nuts right off without breaking a sweat.

Congrats. Those IR Ti guns are the best bang for you buck. Next step up would be a $500+ Mac gun.

 

[promac850]

Congrats. Those IR Ti guns are the best bang for you buck. Next step up would be a $500+ Mac gun.

Thanks. I did lots and lots of research before coming to the conclusion that this is the right gun.

One of the things I am hearing about Mac tools is they actually may disappear in the somewhat near future, and no one will be able to take your old broken tools in and give you a new one. That, and definitely the price of the Mac gun, is what kept me away.

What is your Mac gun rated at for max loosening torque compared to my IR?

Another impact I looked into was the Aircat, half the price, but the problem was there weren't any longevity reviews on it, and I had never heard of the brand name. Whereas with Ingersoll-Rand, I've known that name since I was a little kid when I saw an industrial trailer compressor on a construction site. That right there, to me, meant good tools... not to mention the thing was beat to hell and still made air for them to run their tools on site.

Also, I have used Snap-Off D) guns at the tech center that I went to as part of my high school education... not impressed with them at all... only one of the guns, the best of Snap-On's line, was okay, it still only has about half the balls as this IR I've got. I mean, pull that trigger, and the thing torques in your hand. Not even that top end Snap-on did that...

Ah, a good tool is priceless. I foresee this IR being with me for years, and probably will be rebuilt many, many times.

####, I might be getting AIW addiction disorder... ain't good, eh?

 

[srcarr52]

Thanks. I did lots and lots of research before coming to the conclusion that this is the right gun.

One of the things I am hearing about Mac tools is they actually may disappear in the somewhat near future, and no one will be able to take your old broken tools in and give you a new one. That, and definitely the price of the Mac gun, is what kept me away.

What is your Mac gun rated at for max loosening torque compared to my IR?

Another impact I looked into was the Aircat, half the price, but the problem was there weren't any longevity reviews on it, and I had never heard of the brand name. Whereas with Ingersoll-Rand, I've known that name since I was a little kid when I saw an industrial trailer compressor on a construction site. That right there, to me, meant good tools... not to mention the thing was beat to hell and still made air for them to run their tools on site.

Also, I have used Snap-Off D) guns at the tech center that I went to as part of my high school education... not impressed with them at all... only one of the guns, the best of Snap-On's line, was okay, it still only has about half the balls as this IR I've got. I mean, pull that trigger, and the thing torques in your hand. Not even that top end Snap-on did that...

Ah, a good tool is priceless. I foresee this IR being with me for years, and probably will be rebuilt many, many times.

####, I might be getting AIW addiction disorder... ain't good, eh?

I think most Mac guns are made by the same company as the IR. I know most Mac guns are identical to IR guns besides for the grip. I actually have the older IR Ti model because I no longer turn wrenches for a living. But I have a few friends still in the business and one in particulars new Mac gun is 950 ft-lbs in reverse where my IR gun is 700. Still if you can't get it with 700 maybe you should be using a 3/4" socket.

 

[promac850]

I think most Mac guns are made by the same company as the IR. I know most Mac guns are identical to IR guns besides for the grip. I actually have the older IR Ti model because I no longer turn wrenches for a living. But I have a few friends still in the business and one in particulars new Mac gun is 950 ft-lbs in reverse where my IR gun is 700. Still if you can't get it with 700 maybe you should be using a 3/4" socket.

Ah, well there.

Maybe all IR does with theirs is underrate it so the Mac guns look better when in fact they are the same, minus some cosmetic differences.

Kinda like what some car manufacturers have done for years. Like the Chevy Cavalier and the Cadillac Cimmaron in the 80's... you end up paying for a name.

I do recall the spec when the Titaniums first came out to being 980 foot pounds or something like that. I'll dig around for an old NT catalog... that would tell the truth.

All I know is one time I opened a NT catalog, looked at the IR, and the spec mysteriously was lower than it was before... since you said a lot of the Mac guns are the same, except for a grip, I assume Mac made a deal with IR that they had to make the spec on their gun lower to make the Mac look better.

 

[Tzed250]

Thanks. I did lots and lots of research before coming to the conclusion that this is the right gun.

One of the things I am hearing about Mac tools is they actually may disappear in the somewhat near future, and no one will be able to take your old broken tools in and give you a new one. That, and definitely the price of the Mac gun, is what kept me away.

What is your Mac gun rated at for max loosening torque compared to my IR?

Another impact I looked into was the Aircat, half the price, but the problem was there weren't any longevity reviews on it, and I had never heard of the brand name. Whereas with Ingersoll-Rand, I've known that name since I was a little kid when I saw an industrial trailer compressor on a construction site. That right there, to me, meant good tools... not to mention the thing was beat to hell and still made air for them to run their tools on site.

Also, I have used Snap-Off D) guns at the tech center that I went to as part of my high school education... not impressed with them at all... only one of the guns, the best of Snap-On's line, was okay, it still only has about half the balls as this IR I've got. I mean, pull that trigger, and the thing torques in your hand. Not even that top end Snap-on did that...

Ah, a good tool is priceless. I foresee this IR being with me for years, and probably will be rebuilt many, many times.

####, I might be getting AIW addiction disorder... ain't good, eh?

Ah, well there.

Maybe all IR does with theirs is underrate it so the Mac guns look better when in fact they are the same, minus some cosmetic differences.

Kinda like what some car manufacturers have done for years. Like the Chevy Cavalier and the Cadillac Cimmaron in the 80's... you end up paying for a name.

I do recall the spec when the Titaniums first came out to being 980 foot pounds or something like that. I'll dig around for an old NT catalog... that would tell the truth.

All I know is one time I opened a NT catalog, looked at the IR, and the spec mysteriously was lower than it was before... since you said a lot of the Mac guns are the same, except for a grip, I assume Mac made a deal with IR that they had to make the spec on their gun lower to make the Mac look better.

Maybe we need to have a shootout... Snap-on top of the line MG725. 1190 lbs./ft. removal force. No shrinking violet. $422 retail, I paid $250 refurb from Snap-on.

It gets a workout every day on 3/4 in. fasteners, holding down parts like this (notice Monster can for scale).



Untitled by zweitakt250, on Flickr


I would say the the Snap-on has plenty of balls:msp_wink:


2135TiMAX
50-550 [600 Max.]
650 [780 Max.]


MG725
• Unit delivers an outstanding 1,190 ft. lb. (1,613 N•m) of Bolt Break Away Torque!
• 810 ft. lb. (1,094 N•m) of Recommended Working Torque




.

 

[promac850]

I'll take that challenge.

Drive a 3/4 in bolt into a piece of metal tapped for said bolt, make it so I can clamp it in a vise. Nail that ##### on there full force with your impact, and we'll see if mine can bust it loose.

Sound good?

Make a video, I will too. No cheating. I'll open the box on video, and do the test immediately after clamping the piece of metal in the vise. You tighten that thing on there as tight as possible on your video, and pack it into the box.

Sound fair?

First, what size socket is needed? I might have to find one that big first so that I can perform the test.

Also, the ones at the tech center were lower end... the best one there was probably the best a few years ago, about the same time the IR came out.

Most were those stupid sissy metal ones with no balls, and then the best had a yellow Snap-On protective cover and best I can figure, it had 400 or so ft lbs of loosening torque. It does not torque your hand like my IR will, holding it firmly and surely as if it were a handgun.

I might get one if I happen to stumble upon some more impact acquisition disorder money...

 

[Tzed250]

3/4-10 UNC hex bolt in 1018 MS. 1 1/8 socket needed to drive it.

 

[parrisw]

Maybe we need to have a shootout... Snap-on top of the line MG725. 1190 lbs./ft. removal force. No shrinking violet. $422 retail, I paid $250 refurb from Snap-on.

It gets a workout every day on 3/4 in. fasteners, holding down parts like this (notice Monster can for scale).



Untitled by zweitakt250, on Flickr


I would say the the Snap-on has plenty of balls:msp_wink:


2135TiMAX
50-550 [600 Max.]
650 [780 Max.]


MG725
• Unit delivers an outstanding 1,190 ft. lb. (1,613 N•m) of Bolt Break Away Torque!
• 810 ft. lb. (1,094 N•m) of Recommended Working Torque




.

All Snap-on impact are overated IMHO, my IR 231 has outbeat any snapon gun ever through our shop, even one like yours. All the snap-on air tools I've had just haven't lasted, all the cheaper ones I've bought have outlasted snap-on by a big margin.

 

[Tzed250]

All Snap-on impact are overated IMHO, my IR 231 has outbeat any snapon gun ever through our shop, even one like yours. All the snap-on air tools I've had just haven't lasted, all the cheaper ones I've bought have outlasted snap-on by a big margin.

Strange, I have an IM31 purchased in 1991 that runs like the day it was bought. We have 3 or so IR guns on the shop floor and the MG725 will out torque all of them. I could have had an IR free, I used my own money to buy the Snap-on.

 

[WesternSaw]

Impact Shootout

Well I never expected this on the Tool Forum, Yehaa.May the best man win.I mean tool
Lawrence

 

[promac850]

Well I never expected this on the Tool Forum, Yehaa.May the best man win.I mean tool
Lawrence

Well, we have yet to hear back from him.

Now, I am not bashing Snap-on, they do make good tools. However, from what I've read, their impacts and some other air tools aren't as good as IR, or other top names, which still cost less despite being a top name compared to Snap-On.

I like their hand tools, and will buy them if I can get them used for less money. I will not be buying all new Snap-On tools to fill my box... I will go with Craftsman, of which I've never broken one. And since I save money by buying Craftsman, I can get two or three of each tool for backups and have them ready, rather than break a Snap-On and having to wait a week for a truck to exchange tools.

I've actually broke a Snap-On tool where a Craftsman came in and finished the job. Sometimes you end up paying for a name, more than anything else... that's how I look at this stuff...more money does not always equal better...

 

[parrisw]

Strange, I have an IM31 purchased in 1991 that runs like the day it was bought. We have 3 or so IR guns on the shop floor and the MG725 will out torque all of them. I could have had an IR free, I used my own money to buy the Snap-on.

Ya, I don't know why they don't last but I dislike their air tools. I bought a $140 3/8 air ratchet, it died in less then 1 month, sent it away fixed under warranty, it died again in 6 weeks, I then threw it in the garbage will never buy another, a $40 Canadian tire one has lasted years and works just as good.

 

[Tzed250]

3/4-10 UNC hex bolt in 1018 MS. 1 1/8 socket needed to drive it.

Well, we have yet to hear back from him.

Now, I am not bashing Snap-on, they do make good tools. However, from what I've read, their impacts and some other air tools aren't as good as IR, or other top names, which still cost less despite being a top name compared to Snap-On.

I like their hand tools, and will buy them if I can get them used for less money. I will not be buying all new Snap-On tools to fill my box... I will go with Craftsman, of which I've never broken one. And since I save money by buying Craftsman, I can get two or three of each tool for backups and have them ready, rather than break a Snap-On and having to wait a week for a truck to exchange tools.

I've actually broke a Snap-On tool where a Craftsman came in and finished the job. Sometimes you end up paying for a name, more than anything else... that's how I look at this stuff...more money does not always equal better...

I'll tell you what, your test matches install torque against removal torque. To compare apples to apples, install a bolt in whatever then make a witness mark on the bolt and part. Send it to me and we'll see if my gun can tighten it further.
Whatcha think...?

 

[promac850]

I'll tell you what, your test matches install torque against removal torque. To compare apples to apples, install a bolt in whatever then make a witness mark on the bolt and part. Send it to me and we'll see if my gun can tighten it further.
Whatcha think...?

Ah, that makes better sense.

Problem is I don't think anyone around here sells bolts that damn big!!

Would a 1/2" bolt take the torque we're looking at or would we simply snap it like a twig?

Hmm...

Do you guys at work have a huge ass torque multiplying wrench to torque them big bolts down? If you do, then maybe torque two bolts down, both to the same torque of say, 1100 ft lbs.

I don't have a torque wrench that goes that high, not to mention it doesn't have enough leverage to make that torque, lol. I do have a 3/4" drive ratchet and breaker bar, sockets too. Problem is there is no way to tell what the torque is... I could throw a pipe on it and reef on it, but again, no accuracy, even if I pushed the bar until it just won't turn any more.

Then you nail one off, and I'll try the other.

Even so, I will see if I can find something thick enough to thread and put a big bolt in... then nail it down until it stops turning and the socket gets hot enough that you can't hold onto it...

maybe I do have something laying around waiting to be abused by two impact wrenches.

 

[Tzed250]

If you keep making posts I'm gonna get distracted by your avatar and forget what this thread was all about in the first place.

Uhhh.....what were we talking about?