You're right Marquee, I misread the situation. Never done that. Yeah, topping 30' could be like catching a whole tree. Pretty good yank when it stops.
Topping a 90' pine
- Thread starter cairologger
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treeclimber101
UNCLE BUCK
Maybe your rigging was junk , haven't heard any of the pros here offer that as an option ! Got any pictures of this whole hootenanny
cairologger
ArboristSite Lurker
The top had lots of room to fall, if I had tried a lowing line would'nt the loads on the line or lowering device have been more than any could take. It was just strapped to try to arrest the fall and secure to the trunk. Everyone was 150' away and it was a learning experience. We cut larger than a 90 degree face cut and with the thick hinge wood it tops over slow and does not jump off violently, just kinda lays over, the stap did not show heat damage and was just over loaded. This is a very common practice here with the power companies, they can't afford to have someone walking (climbing) over power lines or dropping limbs on lines. They just limb as high as can be done from a bucket then throw a line high in the top, hook it to a truck, make the hinge cut with lots of hinge material left, get every thing and every one out of the way and pull the top out with no danger to the lines or the help. They are really good at it, normal a 30 minute take down.
We have had quite a few more climbers injured down here from mostly cuts and getting slapped around by ropes and limbs. I think the only bucket injuries have been power lines.[/QUOTE]
I guess we will never see eye to eye on this one, Cairo. When hanging a 4,000 # top is a safer alternative to using a climber who can't keep his hands out his own saw, or out of the way of his own rigging,ya'll really scare me.
I guess we will never see eye to eye on this one, Cairo. When hanging a 4,000 # top is a safer alternative to using a climber who can't keep his hands out his own saw, or out of the way of his own rigging,ya'll really scare me.
Slvrmple72
Addicted to ArboristSite
Until a defect is missed in the tree below the hinge and launches a middle section backwards violently as it fails from the shockload. All bets are off then.
treeclimber101
UNCLE BUCK
So you basically just flip the top over ? Then what go back up and slice it up !
MarquisTree
ArboristSite Operative
Where are you from?
Take a close look at my profile pic, or whatever that's called. Then ask yourself, if you were tied in to the tree would you still use that method? If you think that would be unsafe and unwise then you shouldn't do it at all. Just my 2 cents. If you don't climb and don't have a tall enough bucket call someone in that does.
Regardless of all the (bad) arguments as to why you thing the technique is a good idea...I am still unclear why you did that on this tree? If it all worked as you thought it would, what good would have come out of it in this situation?
MarquisTree
ArboristSite Operative
I have seen this technique used by guys starting out, with No formal training. The guys I have seen do it were landscapers trying to branch out into tree work. Being dumb has nothing to do with it like Pig implied. I am guessing this was done by a logger who has started doing “tree work” to diversify his business. I mean no offense by this but when I worked down south I saw some of the worst most unsafe tree work I could ever imagine. Because it’s a common practice around you is reason NOT to do it. The rest of the world has adopted safe standards for tree work… what is different in your area that justifies this practice? Everywhere in the world people are struggling with the cost of services. Utilities are dealing with the same thing everywhere. You are suggesting that the utilities can’t afford to have someone climb the tree? I urge you to keep an open mind with this thread. A competent climber would have the tree mostly brushed out by the time you have set your line in it. Doing things safely and to the standards doesn’t have to mean being slow.
Just so we are clear. The technique you described of using a static rigging sling to secure the top of a tree and dropping the tree into the sling, is a horrible way of removing a tree. It can work and you can get luckly, but there are many other ways to approach a tree that require no more time or effort and are far safer.
Try and pick thru the Bull #### there is some knowledge here.
MarquisTree
ArboristSite Operative
Remember its common practice for many to go to a bar and get ####faced and drive home...that’s really not a great argument to do it yourself...
cairologger
ArboristSite Lurker
Yes once the top has folded over and is against the trunk it's limbed out, your working from a height thats much lower than the buckets reach. On smaller trees we use a lowering line to lower the top down, alway leaving a strong hinge of wood and moving well away before the hinge is broken. I use a custom built 365 (by me) husqvarna. After drag, circle and bogging for 25 years and many national records as a engine builder I decided to us some of that technology on a chainsaw. I ported the cylinder, and muffler, raised compression changed port timing and ignition timing, coated the piston skirts and ring with dfl and piston top and combustion chamber with thermal barrier and flowed carb. Man this thing is unreal fast.
How much gas you burn in a day?
cairologger
ArboristSite Lurker
average about a gallon a day.
Seemlessstate
ArboristSite Lurker
Hey Cariologger, its rare to meet anyone who even knows where Cairo is, but my mother grew up there, and I used to visit my grandparents there as a kid. we actually still own a small pecan farm there outside town. is your family from the area?
I just dont understand why even try this method? a rigging line and a block/sling just seems way easier to use in tight spots and if you had room to send the top to the ground, why not just cut it and let it fly? besides being safer, it would have been much more fun to watch! I think most of us here have sent 20' or 30' of tree down before, just not into a static tow strap!
I just dont understand why even try this method? a rigging line and a block/sling just seems way easier to use in tight spots and if you had room to send the top to the ground, why not just cut it and let it fly? besides being safer, it would have been much more fun to watch! I think most of us here have sent 20' or 30' of tree down before, just not into a static tow strap!
ROPECLIMBER
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Shock Load/ and Bending Momement
TreeMarquis, great points
I remember reading a paper on the shock load written by a late math Phd turned deceased tree climber, that the drop factor of the shock load was not just the actual amount of drop in the rigging (load) line but calculated to the center of mass, so on a 30 ft full canopy cone heavy pine with a 30" base estamated to be top heavy, the center of mass would be above 15 ft plus the drop in the rigging, ie slack doubled, so another 4 ft minimum so a factor of 19:1
I may be remembering this wrong but it made since and I remembered the article because he died proving his theroems, can't remember his name though,
Also bending Momoment should be concidered espescially using such a wide face cut, and letting the wieght of the top go out past 90 degrees and 30 feet out from the sparr before popping a guy died last week in Nacogdoches Tx, blowing the top out of a dead pine when the spar failed do to the long face cut a humbolt cut breaks the hinge at a much safer anglr to the spar lending less lateral preasure on the sparr, all the math is over my head but if the center of mass is correct the 4000lbs top (seems low for a healthy 30"30 foot tree top) would be 76,000lbs at a 19:1 shock load factor, and if through a block the TIP of the block load doubles so the sling holding the block would have a shock load of around 152,000lbs like a mack truck and a shoe string,
I should have addressed this as a question as I am unsure about the center of mass bieng used in the calculation ??
Paul
TreeMarquis, great points
I remember reading a paper on the shock load written by a late math Phd turned deceased tree climber, that the drop factor of the shock load was not just the actual amount of drop in the rigging (load) line but calculated to the center of mass, so on a 30 ft full canopy cone heavy pine with a 30" base estamated to be top heavy, the center of mass would be above 15 ft plus the drop in the rigging, ie slack doubled, so another 4 ft minimum so a factor of 19:1
I may be remembering this wrong but it made since and I remembered the article because he died proving his theroems, can't remember his name though,
Also bending Momoment should be concidered espescially using such a wide face cut, and letting the wieght of the top go out past 90 degrees and 30 feet out from the sparr before popping a guy died last week in Nacogdoches Tx, blowing the top out of a dead pine when the spar failed do to the long face cut a humbolt cut breaks the hinge at a much safer anglr to the spar lending less lateral preasure on the sparr, all the math is over my head but if the center of mass is correct the 4000lbs top (seems low for a healthy 30"30 foot tree top) would be 76,000lbs at a 19:1 shock load factor, and if through a block the TIP of the block load doubles so the sling holding the block would have a shock load of around 152,000lbs like a mack truck and a shoe string,
I should have addressed this as a question as I am unsure about the center of mass bieng used in the calculation ??
Paul
Goose IBEW
ArboristSite Operative
It seems like a whole lot of effort is going into this rather unsafe method. Climbing would be easier, safer and faster.:confused2: The saw sounds awesome though.
FanOFatherNash
ArboristSite Operative
what happens if you have hollow section of trunk undetected
and you try this? danger will robinson danger
and you try this? danger will robinson danger
