Traffic Control.

[OutOnaLimb]

For the second day in a row I rolled up on a sub contract job that was assighned to only my ground man and myself that required a whole lot more traffic control than the tree contracter had even though about when he bid the job. Yesterday I was called on to trim a huge locust on a busy one lane street in down town Denver. The tree was hanging over a major one way street and the drip line extended to the sidewalk on the otherside of the street. There was a line of cars parked along the opposite side of the streed and guess what, right in the impact area was a brand new Lexus SUV. Not only could I work above the car, but with one man in the street and 4 traffic cones there is no way anyone driving down the street would have thought twice about slowing down just because there were a few cones in this major artery. Not only that we would be closing down the left turn lane on this major one way street meaning that there would be no way for people traveling down this stree to turn left onto 6th Ave. We took one look at this job and said, "no way Jose" I called the tree service owner and he asked why?????? He told me to just have my groundie to get the branches out of the street as soon as they hit. This was absurd. even if my groundie was trying to block off traffic its more than likely that he would just be ignored. I called the guy and told him to get his butt down here and take a look at this tree. While he was on the way to the site, I pulled out the street occupancy permit that is in the truck and it specifically states that we need at least 10 traffic cones and tree, or road work ahead sighns. He demanded to see it and I showed it to him, and he just replied that the cones cost like 10 bucks a piece and the sighns are like 60 bucks. And that he could only be there for like maybe an hour to block traffic while I trimmed over the street, and that he couldnt afford to hire a flag man. I told him that this is just stupid and I wouldnt do it because if anything happened then it would be my insurance paying for it, not his.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Hahahahaaa.

He's a fool.

 

[okietreedude1]

Way to stand up to that guy. You nailed it right on the head about whose insurance would take the hit.

And him whining bout cones?????????? They are a heckova lot cheaper than that lexus suv!

 

[OutOnaLimb]

To say the least I walked away from the job, but then to day I showed up on another job for the same guy and it was a bit Silver Maple the I could climb and drop most everything except the central leader. the tree was leaning over the street and we could get a line in the main leader after all the other leads were down and just pull it over. I measured it out and the top would hit about half way into the street.There were no fences and the only obsticle was a speed limit sighn which was no big deal. Once I got every thing rigged up and ready to pull it was about 3 00 oclock and there was a school a block away so every house wife in the neighborhood was on her way to pick up her kids. Even with two cones and sighns on each side of the impact area. but even though it was a residential area there were cars moving up and down the street. Usually they would just see the cones and drive around them. I worked out a plan with my groundie, I would make the face cut, start a back cut and wait for the all clear, I could see up and down the street both ways, but even though the coast was clear by the time I cut through the 24" trunk some one could have whipped around the corner and right into the impact area. Even though my groundie was in the street with tag line in hand people only gave us the, "what the hell is this idiot doing" look. One teenage girl, with cell phone to her ear actuall stoped in the impact area and gave us a stupid look then looked up at the tree and burned rubber. Everything being said we finally got the thing on the ground and processed. But I dont want to think of what would have happend if some one flew by as the main lead was dropping. What kind of traffic control measures do you all use, besides having lots of cones and sighns, (that cost money), or flaggers, (that cost money).

Kenn

 

[OutOnaLimb]

This is the same guy that when I told him that he needs a fire extingisher on his chipper rigg, he gave me a stupid look and said: Why would we need one of those????? The scary thing is that he was serious.

Kenn

 

[okietreedude1]

Most of our trucks have about 4-5 cones ea. If we know we are going to a job that we need a lot of control, we take some from another truck as well. We used to have some signs for situations such as working on the back side of a hill, but im not sure whats happened to them.

Some times too we've used brush to block streets. It has to be a big piece or people will try to go over it.

You can also park a truck in the middle w/ hazards flashing. this way you could do the truck at one end and cones at the other (in situations like today's).

 

[OutOnaLimb]

Heyyyyyyyyy, Good Idea David. We should have just piled up some brush and put our cones infront of them. Why didnt I think of that? Im a smart guy, I think out of the bun.

Kenn

 

[Ax-man]

Good for you, I would not have had that much patience with an idiot like that.

This other tree service owner does not sound like he knows too much about the business. Does he actually own a tree biz or just some guy who hangs his shingle out and has subs do the work.

Are you going to do more work in the future for this guy?? If you are, I would start going on these jobs he is bidding so there are no surprises when you show up to do the work.

 

[fpyontek]

You don't need to work for this guy, he dosn't care about safety or you. It's a bad situation for you, and you will ultimately be held responsible. Personal injury is the worst of all possible accident senarios. Even if you are extreamly careful, your groundie is in danger because motorists either don't see him or ignore him (or to be politically correct, her).

 

[OutOnaLimb]

It frustrates the hell out of me because there have been more than a few times that I have refused to do a job for him. He owns a good sized tree company and I am his lead climber. The thing he doesnt understand when doing bids is the technical aspect of a removal or even a trim. I try to fill him in on the little things like obsticals like sprinkler heads, mail boxes, fences, power and phone lines. And when I point these out when I show up in the morning most of the time he says, Oh, I didnt even see those. Duhhhhhh!!!!! The thing is he is a really good guy at heart, and he keeps me busy during the winter months, but as soon as spring hits Im rockin it Solo. Trims, removals, Cambistat and Snipper, and stumps. I figure if this clown can be stayin busy then what the hell am I waiting for?

Kenn

 

[Stumper]

Kenn, Have you got a day next week to come over? No traffic issues. I actually have something other than a gnarly elm!

 

[Koa Man]

When we need to close lanes on a busy street, we get a street useage permit, a company called Safety Systems to set up arrow boards, cones etc, and hire an off duty police officer, who wears his uniform to direct traffic. All of this will run about $500 for a full day. I tell customer (example) "The tree removal/pruning will be $ xxxxx, of which $500 is for the street clousure." If they don't like it, I walk from the job. I am not going to risk my financial health because someone did not want to pay $500 extra to take care of their high risk tree.

 

[treeman82]

I am just curious about something. Can you make the contractor sign a piece of paper saying that he is responsible for any and all damages that you cause? I have somebody who I would like to work for, but am a little bit worried about the insurance thing. The guy has some trees that need to get removed, and I am sure that I can do them. However I don't know how he will react when I start remodeling his trucks with 50 lb blocks of wood?

 

[Koa Man]

Can you make the contractor sign a piece of paper saying that he is responsible for any and all damages that you cause?

I would have an attorney draft that document. You want to make sure that it will be worded so that it is legally binding and will absolutely absolve you of all financial responsibility.

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

ha i'll post a few pics of my cones and signs tommorow [we got a truck load],if your working a stretch of street say 30-40 ft in length you need overhere minimum 6 signs and enough cones i'd say 15,oh plus a ''new roads and street works act certificate of confidence'' [1 day course]to be legaly confident to put em out ..if your working a busy road/street you have to have mobile traffic light's [and beleive me it doesn't have to be that busy 20 cars every 3-4 mins something like that]

back to your post Kenn ,your tree service contractor needs to wake his ideas up imo,at the end of the day the guy who's doing the job ie you in this senario is the boss you work how you wanna work ,you did the rite thing and left the job ,me if i was the contractor i would have gone out and bought the neccesary cones and signs no messing imo any decent contracter would

 

[alanarbor]

I could see up and down the street both ways, but even though the coast was clear by the time I cut through the 24" trunk some one could have whipped around the corner and right into the impact area.

That would be a great time for a bore cut. Hinge set, Back cut made, all thats left to be done is to release the holding strap (2sec) That way you can be sure the area's clear before that tree heads down.

Also: Cones cost money, signs cost money, and so do flaggers. If you don't have those controls, and someone gets hurt or killed, that's gonna really cost money, probably more than your insurance will cover.

 

[OutOnaLimb]

That would be a great time for a bore cut. Hinge set, Back cut made, all thats left to be done is to release the holding strap (2sec) That way you can be sure the area's clear before that tree heads down.

Also: Cones cost money, signs cost money, and so do flaggers. If you don't have those controls, and someone gets hurt or killed, that's gonna really cost money, probably more than your insurance will cover.

Great idea Alan, Why didnt I think about that? Kinda like the dragging brush into the street. I learn something new every day on here, you guys are a bunch of fart smellers, uhh, I mean smart fellers.

Kenn

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Heyyyyyyyyy, Good Idea David. We should have just piled up some brush and put our cones infront of them. Why didnt I think of that? Im a smart guy, I think out of the bun.

Kenn

What if someone ran into it? You're not operating to code in public ROW, so you will have at least partial fault. When operating in these settings you MUST protect yourself from the lowest common denominator. I've had people walk past cones, then under tape right through my DZ with my flagger screaming at them. IMO this is the only way i could say I had enough cautionary markers for a reasonable person to stay out of the area.

Not only would it be your insurance, but you might also be fined if you're not following the letter fo the law. Many require a person in hi-vis garb to be present in the cordoned work zone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alanarbor
That would be a great time for a bore cut. Hinge set, Back cut made, all thats left to be done is to release the holding strap (2sec) That way you can be sure the area's clear before that tree heads down.

Also: Cones cost money, signs cost money, and so do flaggers. If you don't have those controls, and someone gets hurt or killed, that's gonna really cost money, probably more than your insurance will cover.


Great idea Alan, Why didnt I think about that? Kinda like the dragging brush into the street. I learn something new every day on here, you guys are a bunch of fart smellers, uhh, I mean smart fellers.

Kenn

I was doing a job just like that for Gopher, everything was clear, I was just getting ready to release the tab on th boar cut and a lady flew around the courner, under the caution tape and hung up on the pull line. I'm lucky she did not snap the hinge out.

I allso had my truck in the middle of this little country side street, with 4-ways flashing...No flagger though, we thought it was so rural the tape and trucks would be enough.

 

[alanarbor]

What we need are some nightclub bouncers guarding our dropzones.

 

[J2Tree]

Yeah, i have been very surprised at what people will go through to get into the work area- cones- signs- flagging- etc...